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Urgent When to let go?

Black piggies

Black piggies

Senior Guinea Pig
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On Friday I noticed my 3.5 year old boar couldn't eat the cucumber and parsley I was giving him, it was dropping out his mouth. Took him to vet and he was 1.3kg when he's normally 1.6kg. Stopped eating, emergency vet Sunday filed lower incisors, got metacam which didnt help, exotic vet Monday filed molars which were growing wrong direction, lost another 100g by Monday, admitted to vet, found to have bad UTI, getting syringe fed, anti biotic, anti inflammatory, gut meds. I've taken him home tonight, Tuesday night and he's to go back tomorrow to be a day patient. But when I just picked him up to syringe feed he tried to squeak and couldn't like he'd lost his voice. Exotic vet said he doesn't think he has bladder stones by feel, but next step would be scan. This evening he's just laid in hidey. When this all started Atticus couldn't eat but showed interest. I feel now he might be slipping away and force feeding him is cruel. (He came as a rescue who I was told couldn't be with cage mates as he was too aggressive / scared and he's lived a very happy, quiet life with his girlfriends with us, but this will be distressing the hell out of him). On Friday I felt he still had spirit and so did I. At what point would I let him go? I've cried and not slept a lot since Friday and can't think straight. I felt desperate to keep him going but now I'm not sure that's right seeing his distress.
 
I'm not much help with what to do, but if you can get to Northampton with him, which is a bit of an ask in this station, but we have the best guinea pig dental vet down here. The cat and rabbit care clinic, I think Simon there could sort him out. He's very skilled with diagnosing problems especially dental problems, where other vets may have made things worse

St Albans isn't that far down the M1 really. It would be well worth it. People travel across the country to see him
 
Black piggies said:
On Friday I noticed my 3.5 year old boar couldn't eat the cucumber and parsley I was giving him, it was dropping out his mouth. Took him to vet and he was 1.3kg when he's normally 1.6kg. Stopped eating, emergency vet Sunday filed lower incisors, got metacam which didnt help, exotic vet Monday filed molars which were growing wrong direction, lost another 100g by Monday, admitted to vet, found to have bad UTI, getting syringe fed, anti biotic, anti inflammatory, gut meds. I've taken him home tonight, Tuesday night and he's to go back tomorrow to be a day patient. But when I just picked him up to syringe feed he tried to squeak and couldn't like he'd lost his voice. Exotic vet said he doesn't think he has bladder stones by feel, but next step would be scan. This evening he's just laid in hidey. When this all started Atticus couldn't eat but showed interest. I feel now he might be slipping away and force feeding him is cruel. (He came as a rescue who I was told couldn't be with cage mates as he was too aggressive / scared and he's lived a very happy, quiet life with his girlfriends with us, but this will be distressing the hell out of him). On Friday I felt he still had spirit and so did I. At what point would I let him go? I've cried and not slept a lot since Friday and can't think straight. I felt desperate to keep him going but now I'm not sure that's right seeing his distress.
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PS in the 3 years I've had the pigs they've never slept or snuggled together, just not that kind of pigs, but this is girl pig laying beside him as he's in the hidey. She's never done this before.
1576022450645.webp
 
Syringe feeding isn't cruel, unless they are spitting it out, and you've tried everything you can to make the flavour nicer for them. Mushed up pellets in boiling water and left to Cool can be more tempting to syringe feed.

Think about using the vet I mentioned. Has the tooth issue been fixed or not? I guess it shard to tell if he's in pain and won't eat much anyway
 
SkyPipDotBernie said:
I'm not much help with what to do, but if you can get to Northampton with him, which is a bit of an ask in this station, but we have the best guinea pig dental vet down here. The cat and rabbit care clinic, I think Simon there could sort him out. He's very skilled with diagnosing problems especially dental problems, where other vets may have made things worse

St Albans isn't that far down the M1 really. It would be well worth it. People travel across the country to see him
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Thank you, I'll phone him tomorrow. The current vet are trying really hard to look after Atticus, would I just say Simon is a dental specialist?
 
SkyPipDotBernie said:
Syringe feeding isn't cruel, unless they are spitting it out, and you've tried everything you can to make the flavour nicer for them. Mushed up pellets in boiling water and left to Cool can be more tempting to syringe feed.

Think about using the vet I mentioned. Has the tooth issue been fixed or not? I guess it shard to tell if he's in pain and won't eat much anyway
Click to expand...
He's so distressed by it all and I'm worried he's fading away, that girl pig is lying beside him because she knows he's dying.
 
Black piggies said:
Thank you, I'll phone him tomorrow. The current vet are trying really hard to look after Atticus, would I just say Simon is a dental specialist?
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Yea he is what I would say is a specialist. They should fit you in if it's urgent and you are travelling quite a way. Put it this way, furryfriends teas runs a rescue for guinea pigs with mild to severe dental issues, and Simon fixes alot of them back to full health, or atleast able to live a normal life again but need trims every few months.
 
Black piggies said:
He's so distressed by it all and I'm worried he's fading away, that girl pig is lying beside him because she knows he's dying.
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I'm sorry to heae this, it's very difficult, I might be wrong in saying travel with him to Northampton, see how he is tomorrow and make the decision. 👍.
 
Sorry you’re having a tough time with your boy. I would continue syringe feeding. You will know when the time has come. But fingers crossed he will recover. Healing wheeks from my four ❣️
 
Black piggies said:
On Friday I noticed my 3.5 year old boar couldn't eat the cucumber and parsley I was giving him, it was dropping out his mouth. Took him to vet and he was 1.3kg when he's normally 1.6kg. Stopped eating, emergency vet Sunday filed lower incisors, got metacam which didnt help, exotic vet Monday filed molars which were growing wrong direction, lost another 100g by Monday, admitted to vet, found to have bad UTI, getting syringe fed, anti biotic, anti inflammatory, gut meds. I've taken him home tonight, Tuesday night and he's to go back tomorrow to be a day patient. But when I just picked him up to syringe feed he tried to squeak and couldn't like he'd lost his voice. Exotic vet said he doesn't think he has bladder stones by feel, but next step would be scan. This evening he's just laid in hidey. When this all started Atticus couldn't eat but showed interest. I feel now he might be slipping away and force feeding him is cruel. (He came as a rescue who I was told couldn't be with cage mates as he was too aggressive / scared and he's lived a very happy, quiet life with his girlfriends with us, but this will be distressing the hell out of him). On Friday I felt he still had spirit and so did I. At what point would I let him go? I've cried and not slept a lot since Friday and can't think straight. I felt desperate to keep him going but now I'm not sure that's right seeing his distress.
Click to expand...

Hi!

HUGS

I am very sorry.

Please take the time to carefully read this guide here. The last chapter is about dying piggies; you may hopefully find it helpful as it gives you a list of points to judge when your piggy is crossing the line from being very ill and not having any appetite to no longer being able to process food. It is always most difficult when you come close to the line. Pain and discomfort are also pointers.
Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

This guide here deals with the emotional and ethical issues when looking after a terminally ill/dying piggy as you are basically start the grieving process as soon as realise that death is a real possibility and not just an abstract concept. Your reaction is typical for this - apart from the actual goodbye, this is the worst moment in the whole process. You will hopefully find it helpful now and in the coming days.
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children
Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig

We can't tell you exactly when to let your piggy go as there is grey zone between it being clearly too soon or clearly too late, unless events take the decision straight out of your hands.
if you feel that your piggy is in real pain or discomfort, please see an ou-of-hours vet. (the emergency guide will tell you how to find one)
If your piggy is still there tomorrow morning, I would recommend to book him in at your vets so you can reassess the situation and make any decisions based on your vet's findings and judgment. If you ask a vet for their honest opinion, they will usually give it to you. The ultimate decision is always yours, and yours only.

PS: For dental issues we strongly recommend to see Simon Maddock at the Cat&Rabbit Care Clinic in Northampton. He is the most experienced vet in this area in the UK; he sees piggies from as far as Cornwall or Edinburgh and does about 15 piggy dentals a week as the clinic only deals with cats, rabbits and guinea pigs and other pet rodents. It can well be that the dental problems has been the result of an underlying issue rather than the cause of the rest.
 
Wiebke said:
Hi!

HUGS

I am very sorry.

Please take the time to carefully read this guide here. The last chapter is about dying piggies; you may hopefully find it helpful as it gives you a list of points to judge when your piggy is crossing the line from being very ill and not having any appetite to no longer being able to process food. It is always most difficult when you come close to the line. Pain and discomfort are also pointers.
Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

This guide here deals with the emotional and ethical issues when looking after a terminally ill/dying piggy as you are basically start the grieving process as soon as realise that death is a real possibility and not just an abstract concept. Your reaction is typical for this - apart from the actual goodbye, this is the worst moment in the whole process. You will hopefully find it helpful now and in the coming days.
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children
Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig

We can't tell you exactly when to let your piggy go as there is grey zone between it being clearly too soon or clearly too late, unless events take the decision straight out of your hands.
if you feel that your piggy is in real pain or discomfort, please see an ou-of-hours vet. (the emergency guide will tell you how to find one)
If your piggy is still there tomorrow morning, I would recommend to book him in at your vets so you can reassess the situation and make any decisions based on your vet's findings and judgment. If you ask a vet for their honest opinion, they will usually give it to you. The ultimate decision is always yours, and yours only.

PS: For dental issues we strongly recommend to see Simon Maddock at the Cat&Rabbit Care Clinic in Northampton. He is the most experienced vet in this area in the UK; he sees piggies from as far as Cornwall or Edinburgh and does about 15 piggy dentals a week as the clinic only deals with cats, rabbits and guinea pigs and other pet rodents. It can well be that the dental problems has been the result of an underlying issue rather than the cause of the rest.
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Thank you that's all so helpful. I'll get the Piggy in Heaven book for my son if needed. Atticus is due back as a day patient at the vet in the morning.
If he doesn't make it I'm going to wonder what happened. Can you get guinea pig autopsy?
 
Black piggies said:
Thank you that's all so helpful. I'll get the Piggy in Heaven book for my son if needed. Atticus is due back as a day patient at the vet in the morning.
If he doesn't make it I'm going to wonder what happened. Can you get guinea pig autopsy?
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I am sorry you are having such a rough time with Atticus at the moment - it really is so hard to know what to do for the best sometimes.
You can get an autopsy on a guinea pig, but what I would say to you is that is usually a combination of issues, finally becoming too overwhelming for their system to handle. In cases like this is it rarely just one single cause.

For now be kind to yourself and try to focus on Atticus. It really sounds like you are doing everything possible for him and he is clearly a very loved piggy.
 
Black piggies said:
Thank you that's all so helpful. I'll get the Piggy in Heaven book for my son if needed. Atticus is due back as a day patient at the vet in the morning.
If he doesn't make it I'm going to wonder what happened. Can you get guinea pig autopsy?
Click to expand...

It is possible, it's not something I have ever opted for and it is expensive. Questions like that are a normal part of the grief cycle and it's weighing up whether potentially having answers would actually change anything. For me I've always seen it as something that isn't going to change the outcome at all and I've always made decisions best on what's best for the piggy with the support of my vets knowledge so I would not have done anything differently.
 
Black piggies said:
Booked to see Simon dental vet this evening. Fingers crossed. Thank you people for advice and kind words.
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I would offer softened pellets in the meantime, little and often can be the key. Best of luck with the appointment. Simon knows his stuff and will be honest about possible outcomes and best course of action.
 
Hope your appointment goes well and Simon can help. He’s a brilliant vet and massively helped both my (rainbow bridge) chinchillas and piggies. Good luck xx
 
Lady Kelly said:
I would offer softened pellets in the meantime, little and often can be the key. Best of luck with the appointment. Simon knows his stuff and will be honest about possible outcomes and best course of action.
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Thanks he seemed to take mashed nuggets better this morning than he had been taking critical care.
 
Hello @Black piggies
I'm hoping to add to the postive vibes and great support.
I myself have these wonderful people to help in need for me and my piggies.
Atticus is clearly loved by you and family and you giving him the best chance and as your title starts with I suggest not yet.
it takes a lot out piggies vet trips etc special feeding but you doing great. his weight is huge. . 1.3. wow.
Atticus little guy you fight cos lot people and piggies care. x
 
David Piggie Lover said:
Hello @Black piggies
I'm hoping to add to the postive vibes and great support.
I myself have these wonderful people to help in need for me and my piggies.
Atticus is clearly loved by you and family and you giving him the best chance and as your title starts with I suggest not yet.
it takes a lot out piggies vet trips etc special feeding but you doing great. his weight is huge. . 1.3. wow.
Atticus little guy you fight cos lot people and piggies care. x
Click to expand...
Thank you, hopefully the good vibes and love and dental vet will get him through :-)
 
Black piggies said:
Thank you that's all so helpful. I'll get the Piggy in Heaven book for my son if needed. Atticus is due back as a day patient at the vet in the morning.
If he doesn't make it I'm going to wonder what happened. Can you get guinea pig autopsy?
Click to expand...

Yes, you can ask your vet for a post mortem examination but you will have to pay for it.

All the best in this difficult time. It is always much more taxing when you have to comfort and support a child on top of your own worries and feelings!
 
Well I didn't make it to appointment with Simon yesterday as got stuck in 4 hour long queue in M1. Saw Kim today, 5 hour round trip. Hope my piggies appreciate this :-)
Kim was fabulous! She identified missed burrs, thrush, very painful ulcer. She said the vet had cut the incisors in a way they'd not meet which she fixed. She gave higher pain meds and anti fungal. And she answered the question I posted - she said hopefully we'll get him healthy but even though he's not severely weak, he's very sore and sad and if we can't fix that long term, then PTS would be kind.
Atticus has been trying to eat food again for the first time in days. I think his teeth might need to grow a bit so still syringe feeding 40ml a day.
Whatever happens Atticus has been given the best chance and I feel a weight lifted. My home vet have been kind offering to help with feeding. Thank you for kind advice.
:-) :-) :-)
 
Black piggies said:
Well I didn't make it to appointment with Simon yesterday as got stuck in 4 hour long queue in M1. Saw Kim today, 5 hour round trip. Hope my piggies appreciate this :-)
Kim was fabulous! She identified missed burrs, thrush, very painful ulcer. She said the vet had cut the incisors in a way they'd not meet which she fixed. She gave higher pain meds and anti fungal. And she answered the question I posted - she said hopefully we'll get him healthy but even though he's not severely weak, he's very sore and sad and if we can't fix that long term, then PTS would be kind.
Atticus has been trying to eat food again for the first time in days. I think his teeth might need to grow a bit so still syringe feeding 40ml a day.
Whatever happens Atticus has been given the best chance and I feel a weight lifted. My home vet have been kind offering to help with feeding. Thank you for kind advice.
:-) :-) :-)
Click to expand...
This is great news, I told you it would be worth it! 😉It's crap about that M1 queue, that road is always a let down, I basicly live on it lol. And also I knew the vet you used would likely have cut the teeth wrong. I'm so glad you actually got the problems inldentified 👍
 
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