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You Have A Duty Of Care !

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Getting a little worried by reading all the threads saying "I can't afford to get my guys to the vets,especially on a Sunday"

Did you not think that before you bought an animal that it would get sick? It's nature , things get sick , people get sick and if you have pets you have a DUTY to provide veterinary treatment ! How can you leave an animal in obvious pain and or discomfort ? Why buy an animal if you can't provide the care it needs?

I am by no means rich ( I work in retail on a very low salary) I also have a house , a car and other pets to provide for too ....
BUT before I even bought my animals I thought about how I would pay for bills , I took out an insurance policy. Because I knew I wouldn't be able to afford a huge vet bill , I took out insurance becuase I have a duty of care to look after my boys . It's less than a takeaway ! And gives you peace of mind
You wouldn't deny a child medical care so why deny an animal ? They can't tell you what's wrong either

Please if you are unable to give your animal the care it deserves then surrender them to a rescue where they will get medical care , or ask friends or family to help pay .
100% agree!
 
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That person doesn't actually own that guinea pig, so the whole "responsible owner" thing doesn't directly apply here. They've agreed to look after it, but we have no idea what their schedule is like, what they work as, how frequently, or anything.

I dislike the fact that pig isn't being taken directly to the vet either, but don't sit and bang on about a duty of care that they don't actually have. Blaming them won't help.
You would think though if you asked someone to look after your pet that you would provide them with enough money to cover a vet visit and any other associated costs and that if you agreed to look after the animal that you would consider if you had the time to look after it properly (taking to vets etc) before you took on the responsibility. Just having a opinion regarding your post not having a go at you if it sounds that way btw.
 
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You would think though if you asked someone to look after your pet that you would provide them with enough money to cover a vet visit and any other associated costs and that if you agreed to look after the animal that you would consider if you had the time to look after it properly (taking to vets etc) before you took on the responsibility. Just having a opinion regarding your post not having a go at you if it sounds that way btw.

Yeah, but there's a million and one ways something can go wrong and if you're not personally a pet owner yourself, with the best will in the world, you won't necessarily be thinking like the owner does. My first reaction would be to get that pig to the vet, but someone who doesn't actually own animals could be worrying about losing their job if they can't ring in, or finding an open exotics vet on a Sunday (I'm pretty sure I remember them saying before they didn't have great vet options nearby but I'd have to look it up to be certain), or...well, you get the idea.

We're coming from this as pet owners, some of us far more experienced than others. But someone maybe looking after their friends pig as a favour isn't necessarily going to feel like we do, at least not at first. I'm not trying to make excuses, but we've all got to start somewhere with these things and someone getting chucked in at the deep end needs to get their bearings first.

I apologise for getting so snippy earlier, but we won't get anywhere by berating people who are clearly trying, just maybe not as hard as we would like or the pigs in their care need. All we can do is point people in the right direction and hope that the advice gets taken on board, any more than that is out of our control.
 
When you put in a claim do you have to pay more each month? I have insured both of my pigs recently and keep worrying about how much it costs. I'm going to be paying over £28 a month for them.
When you make a claim they usually take the premium from the claim, so if you have 4 months left to renewal, you will get back the vet fees you paid less any excess, then less the premiums left in that year until renewal. You then don't pay anymore premiums for that piggy until the new insurance year starts. You are still insured during that time. HTH :)
 
I think there are a lot of facts here to be taken into account. Also there is misinformation, but not coming from anyone on here I may add.

Expense: There is a general belief that rodent pets are cheap and easy to care for. In some ways this is true, though keeping rodents properly, especially piggies I feel, requires more time and effort that many people realise at first. As for being 'cheap', yes in theory, once the original set-up is in place and you have toys and enrichment, you buy veggies, bedding and hay and pellets. Not the most expensive pets in the world. Plus there is the perception that guinea pigs are hardy little animals.
Now I already knew how expensive a trip to the vet can be from my other rodent pets, however it's not too hard to see how suddenly being faced with £100's vets bills can come as a nasty shock. I took one of mine to an out of hours vet once. The consultation alone was over £90. A scan would have cost, if I recall, over £200, anything else was in the £100s. Fortunately for my bank account she didn't need to be taken in as an emergency (as I originally thought she might). She had colitis after eating grass and was bleeding out of her bottom. I didn't dare leave it until the morning, but had it been serious can you imagine the bill? £1000 perhaps?

It's easy to berate people over not wanting to pay vets fees, and easy to say "well don't get a pet then" but even I was shocked at the cost of out of hours care, and I DO have money set a side for these eventualities.

I actually think that it would be more helpful if it was a general policy of pet shops to let prospective owners know that vets bills can be large. Of course they won't do that, as it may put some people off from buying the pet, but they should be informed before purchase to save a lot of heartache and suffering. They should also be informed of insurance plans and other help, before purchase.

Which leads me on to Being Informed - Research:

Not enough people totally understand what keeping their pet will involve and discover that things are not as they imagined them to be. Fortunately this forum is a great mine of information, and there are other forums out there for pigs and just about any pet you can think of.
Fortunately many people really do understand they have a duty to care, and even when their pet's behaviour or something else has taken them by surprised will seek out help to make things right or as best as it can be. People have misconceptions from early childhood attitudes of piggy-keeping. Things have changed. It can take a while for people to catch up!
It's great to see more people doing their research first, but there are plenty who already believe that they know the necessary information via their childhood experiences, or from what pet shops have told them, and it doesn't occur to everyone to seek out forums first-hand. Times are changing. For younger people the internet can be the first place they think of for advice, I think the old misconceptions will eventually die out.

And here we have the duty of care.
In an ideal world people will have taken expense, including vets bills of potentially £100s, into account before taking in their new pets. They will have done their research and pretty much know what to expect in terms of animal needs and behaviour.
In reality people can be shocked at what caring for their new pet entails, especially the expense, and also shocked at how frequently health problems can occur in an animal with a hardy reputation, but duty of care extends to doing the best that you can in the face of these surprises to make things right, and if you cannot give appropriate care to your pet then rehoming to someone who can, often best done via a shelter.


This is why, if I had my way, it would actually be enshrined in law for anyone selling pets as a business to give out approved (perhaps by the RSPCA) guidelines on the care AND potential expense. Not something wishy-washy like 'you will agree to take the pet to the vet', but something more solid, that your pet is likely to require vet treatment at some time during it's life and that may include scans, x-rays, sedation, operations, tests, and ultimately £100s in treatment.
 
This is why, if I had my way, it would actually be enshrined in law for anyone selling pets as a business to give out approved (perhaps by the RSPCA) guidelines on the care AND potential expense. Not something wishy-washy like 'you will agree to take the pet to the vet', but something more solid, that your pet is likely to require vet treatment at some time during it's life and that may include scans, x-rays, sedation, operations, tests, and ultimately £100s in treatment.

Totally with you except perhaps on the RSPCA point. Not to say that they do or don't do good work, but Northern Ireland (for example) doesn't have any RSPCA presence. What do you do for somewhere like that? Animal welfare falls under the responsibility of local councils over there. I don't think having one rule in England and Wales, one in Scotland, and one in Northern Ireland would help...heck at the minute you could simply bypass it by crossing the Scottish/English border.

Not that I know of anything that would work UK wide, but I wonder if there's something out there that would?
 
I care for other people's pets on a daily basis, both through my paid work as a petsitter and also through the charity (TEAS). It is a huge responsibility, but I always keep everyone updated on how their pet is, and if they become poorly, they get frequent updates. Before any pet is left in my care, I get written permission to obtain any veterinary care they need. I take the view that when any pet is in my care, they will be treated as if they were my own. Therefore, if I feel they need veterinary treatment, then they will get it.
 
I can vouch for you on that @furryfriends (TEAS) , you and your vets went above and beyond for mine.

I think in terms of leaving an animal in someone else's care you do need some kid of prior agreement. Thing is in terms of simply pet-sitting it's down to the owner to find a place where the carer is willing and able to get to the vet, with the agreement that the owner will pay full costs if that become necessary.

I used to pet-sit for a friend. I had to take one of her pigs to a vet once. She had already agreed in advance and I knew in advance that I would be able to organise it.
It was minor as it happens, but these things do need to be agreed on.
 
I'm going to get it sorted on the laptop tonight. I don't mind paying the odd 20-30 for haircuts and nail trimming but insurance seems like the most sensible thing to get now I have 3 of the little darlings ❤

Thank you for this post i think you have said what's been on most of our minds when ready some posts and it's so very well put xx
Iv been looking for pet insurance but the only Guniea pig one i found rules out so much it did not seam worth it so i just put the £17:54 it would have cost per piggy in a separate account iv opened for them each month so it's there for when they need it,
If you have info on a good pet plan is be VERY interested in getting it.
Thank you again
 
The whole duty of care thing, whilst I agree very much that we all do have a duty of care and it should be taken very seriously, where are the limits? This is not a rant, these are questions to think about because unless we are super-wealthy we all have limits somewhere, high or low, there is a limit.

I know it's easy to say "I treat them like my children and are just important". The reality is that if one of my lads needed emergency treatment and I could see that one of my pets needed emergency treatment at the same time, who would I prioritise? My kids. For me it's a no-brainer. That doesn't mean I don't care about my pets or value their lives, but there would be no contest. I would save my kids. What is more important than your pet? Something? Nothing? Do we judge another if there is something in their life that would have to take priority if push came to shove? Lots of us have given up a lot in our lives for the sake of our pets and rescuing animals, but somewhere there is a limit.

Even shelters have limits. They care deeply but sometimes have to turn animals away. Can we say that they should take out more finance to expand and sort the vet fees? Priorities - we all have them and they are all different.

I also know it's easy to say "borrow the money, do what it takes just get that pet to the vets" Well - what would MY limits be on that I wonder? I have some savings. That's great. What if those were to run out. Would I go into debt? If so would I risk a loan if I knew couldn't pay it back on time? Would I risk going into a downward spiral of debt just adding up and then hardly being able to care for anyone in the house, including the pets? What if I spend all my money on vets fees for one pet and then not having any left over if another needs treatment? What if the treatment includes the dreaded out-of-hours scenario and it costs over £1000 in one go? Where are the Out Of Hours duty of care - I mean how can they justify doubling or tripling their fees to costs that very few people with average jobs can realistically afford?
What if I take out insurance and then the insurers refuse to cover certain things? It happens.
Where are my limits? Where are your limits? When do we start getting judgemental about someone else's limits?
Do we have to be wealthy to justify getting a pet in the first place, just in case?

What if I am in danger of being made redundant, things are on the line and I jeopardise my chances of staying on by taking sudden no-notice days off to get to the vets? Is my job more important than my pet's life?. Well... no, not on the face of it, and yet it sort-of could be if I would struggle for funds to keep any of my pets without a job. What if being without a job then means you cannot afford vets fees for any of your other pets, or follow up treatment for the one who suddenly became ill in the first place? Do you take the future into account at all as it's all just possible ifs, so spend everything you have in the present and hope that you will have time to save up before the next big vet-blow-out?

There are people on here who have spent £1000s. I have spent 2-3K myself on vets fees over the space of perhaps 4 years. I still have the funds, thankfully. What if someone else can spare less but it comes to more?
How much in spare funds do we say another person should have to take on a pet? How fair is it if we do? What if their funds are wiped out by something else unexpected? Do they suddenly become an irresponsible owner for becoming skint?

I think we have to be very careful about judging others when other life priorities and funds come into the question.

I am in no way belittling the sentiment of the original poster on this topic. It pains me when I see other people not taking their duty of care seriously. Sometimes I get really very angry inside, but perhaps as important as it is to recognise that people shouldn't take on a pet they definitely can't afford, it is also important to recognise that people can be shocked at how much they do have to spend, and that sometimes other things come into it too, like family issues, car troubles - life. Sometimes it's hard not to judge, sometimes it's obvious people don't care, sometimes though things can be really tough for the owners and they would do anything to change their circumstances but just cannot get that pet to a vet..
 
I agree with what Critter has said. For some strange reason people assume that as they are little pets the vet bills will be less than those for a cat or dog. If only that were the case. There's also the people who breed them irresponsibly just to sell to pet shops, unfortunately there doesn't seem to be the drive to make people aware of the responsibility of not letting any pet just procreate with disastrous consequences.
 
I agree with what Critter has said. For some strange reason people assume that as they are little pets the vet bills will be less than those for a cat or dog. If only that were the case. There's also the people who breed them irresponsibly just to sell to pet shops, unfortunately there doesn't seem to be the drive to make people aware of the responsibility of not letting any pet just procreate with disastrous consequences.

I think it may be because cats and dogs need regular scheduled treatments for worms, vaccinations etc, and there's many plans for weight checks etc that vets offer. You also expect the dog to need some kind of dental hygiene treatment at some point. You half expect your dog to eat something he shouldn't at some point and your cat to get into a fight. Somehow I don't think people realise that things are likely to 'go wrong' with a rodent. Also back when I was a kid there was little to be done if something did go wrong. I think there's plenty of people who are surprised at the amount of things you can now treat in small animals. And yes, surgery and medicines are often expensive whether it's a dog or a piggy
I hear what you say completely about the breeding. Certainly, especially, the mills. There's been so much in the news about puppies being bred without a care for the health of the pups or the parents and prosecutions too. Where is the news about inhumane breeding in small animals for the pet industry? No-where - no news that I have come across anyway. People just don't know.
 
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:agr: with Critter.ive waited until i have a more mature outlook,and time to get my piggies .i was unfortunate to have an illness which meant i was unable to do my job of years and good salary.i had taken on too many guinea pigs and had to rehome a few.I did not see my health problems coming and live alone.This does not mean i am a bad owner.
I am employed now and my piggies do get treatment when needed.i am looking at insuring the healthy young piggies,having a vet fund for the others.it is important to not judge,everyones circumstances are different.:nod:
 
I think there is a lesson to be learned here for everyone. If you get asked to care for a friend's guinea pig, or the neighbours piggy, or your teenager gets asked to look after a friends piggy then sit down and have a conversation first. You need to have a very direct and frank discussion about what happens if the guinea pig becomes poorly whilst in your care. Find out if they have the piggy registered at a vet or if they would be happy for you to take to your vet. Not a nice conversation, but ask about euthanasia and who you would like to make the decision, if it should be needed. You need to explain that you won't just not get treatment and if they say they wouldn't want you to seek veterinary treatment in the event of illness, then don't care for the animal. Discuss about payment for any veterinary treatment too.

Please remember, not everyone's circumstances are the same and what one person can afford, another may not be able to. You are not there to judge, but to ensure the welfare of the animal. This may mean euthanasia for a pet, that you would choose to treat.

Looking after other peoples animals is a very big commitment and if you don't feel able to talk about the less than nice bits of pet ownership, then don't get involved.
 
No animal should be left to suffer, but the decision to treat or euthanise, when the animal is very poorly, is entirely up to the individual. No-one has a bottomless pit of money and what might be very affordable for one person, could be entirely out of the question for another.
 
One thing this post has driven home to me is the idea of leaving really detailed instructions for anyone caring for a pet on vacation. When Sundae was heaving periodic dentals, I left the pigs with my parents (who are honestly wonderful pig sitters!) for two weeks. When I got home, Sundae was in need of dental work again and had lost a lot of weight... my parents were giving her soft foods, ensuring that she was eating SOMETHING, but did not weight her and did not take her to the vet as I would have done under the circumstances. Luckily a dental visit with the vet right after I got home set her right, but it made me really aware to leave detailed written instructions the next time, particularly in the case of Sundae, who was a piggie with known health problems. I know that my vet will bill customers (i.e. you don't have to pay that second, they will bill you and you pay within 30 days), so whenever I have left the pigs, I have left the vet number and address and said that if things are not right, take them to the vet and have the vet bill me any associated costs. That way my friend wouldn't be stuck paying the bill.
 
I agree with what Critter has said. For some strange reason people assume that as they are little pets the vet bills will be less than those for a cat or dog. If only that were the case.

I did lots of research before getting my pigs, including talking to a vet. His words, and I quote "Guinea pigs don't get ill. They just lose weight and then drop dead". Now I also found here which opened my eyes a bit but some of the sums I've read about since getting them has made my eyes bleed! So even if you do reasonable research you can still come unstuck.
 
I did lots of research before getting my pigs, including talking to a vet. His words, and I quote "Guinea pigs don't get ill. They just lose weight and then drop dead". Now I also found here which opened my eyes a bit but some of the sums I've read about since getting them has made my eyes bleed! So even if you do reasonable research you can still come unstuck.
I think this is true to the extent that a lot of people don't bother taking guinea pigs to the vet. I imagine if you never got them vet care, they would appear to lose weight and then drop dead (obviously, the vet care SHOULD have been in between losing weight and dropping dead!) Or at least that seems to be the perspective in Canada where I am. I have run into a lot of people who are surprised that my guinea pigs get vet care, especially Sundae, who had ongoing health needs and got a lot of vet care over her 7 years of life. The attitude was, "Why, when you could get another guinea pig for twenty-five dollars?" They seem to be mainly viewed as toys for children, not a pet on par with a dog who you would get care for. It's a very sad attitude towards animal life. :(
 
My boyfriend always wants, and I would give him anyway really detailed instructions whenever I am away.

He has a list of what to feed them and when, including hay.

I leave him some money in case he needs to take a taxi to the vet and I've told him that I would pay the vet bill over the phone with my credit card.

He worries that they'll get ill so he also has two phone numbers of ladies I know in Nottingham that he can call on as I don't have any local friend or family. If they're not able to come to him they'll offer good advice.

We've discussed what to do if one of them needs euthanising. I've told him that I know he loves the boys so I trust him to make the call. But, he would prefer it to be me so if I'm available I'll decide.

Last time I went away we had a bit of a practice run when Podrick's nose started to randomly bleed. Poor boyfriend was in a right tizz but felt a bit calmer knowing he had people to call and money for a taxi. Thankfully Pod was okay and didn't need the vet immediately. I took him a few days later when I got back for a checkup.
 
I did lots of research before getting my pigs, including talking to a vet. His words, and I quote "Guinea pigs don't get ill. They just lose weight and then drop dead". Now I also found here which opened my eyes a bit but some of the sums I've read about since getting them has made my eyes bleed! So even if you do reasonable research you can still come unstuck.

My Sister-In-Law was told a similar thing when she kept pigs years ago, by her vet. She was told that when they get ill they just give up and die and there's not much to be done about it. The fact is they hide their illness and the signs can be quite subtle, and they may bravely carry on and carry on through it until it's advanced and they are really struggling, so the opposite is true really.
 
The subject of people not being able to pay for vetcare can become a very heated debate. But lets not forget some very important situational facts here.

1) The person posting for advice might be a minor and the parent might be the one "unwilling" to foot such a large vet fee for such a small animal.
This is a sad scenario but sadly not uncommon. A lot of parents who allow their children these pets do not realize that they can be quite prone to vet visits in their life spans and that the costs can mount. They might also be of the school of thought that it's a "disposable" pet and its cheaper to just replace it. Again is is deeply saddening but we cannot educate every single person nor can we reach out and convince them that a life is a life regardless of how small.

2) The person might be someone who at the time of purchasing their pets was well equipped to cover costs. But life goes on and peoples personal situations can change drastically, perhaps they have lost a job and struggled to find a new one. Perhaps they have suffered some other misfortune that has impacted their finances as a result. While it is easy to say "Then hand your pet over to a rescue" for some of these people that pet might be all they have left and they might find it incredibly difficult to make such a decision.
I am not condoning the actions of keeping a pet you cannot care for, I just would like people to be not so quick to condemn someone when we do not know their personal circumstances.

3) It might be a pet left in their care while the owner is vacationing.
In which case the vet fees are going to fall on the carer. The trouble with this is that the fees might amount to something that the owner was just not willing/able to pay. This can leave friendships very tense if the carer is not being reimbursed and struggling to deal with the extra cost to themselves. Whenever you care for someones pet, or indeed have someone care for yours it is always a good idea to talk about a "worst case scenario" beforehand and discuss what would happen should the animal need unplanned medical attention.

As always no matter what the situation it is always best to assess the possible costs before obtaining any animal. Another tip would be to try and put aside a little money each month (it really does not have to be a large amount) into a "vet fund" that you can draw from should the need arise.
There are also some insurance policies out there for small animals but coverage can vary depending on the country, the policy package and the age of the animals.

Please remember that these people call out to the forum for help, although it is heartbreaking to have to hear that an animal is in distress and the person feels they cannot afford to pay for the costs. Please let us think before we judge.

Thank you for reading.
 
My Sister-In-Law was told a similar thing when she kept pigs years ago, by her vet. She was told that when they get ill they just give up and die and there's not much to be done about it. The fact is they hide their illness and the signs can be quite subtle, and they may bravely carry on and carry on through it until it's advanced and they are really struggling, so the opposite is true really.
Oh yeah, obviously I quickly worked this out but this is an actual vet that is missing the connection between prey animal and "best not show weakness". Don't get me wrong, they are an amazing vet. But their expertise lies in other areas.
 
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