Alexandra West

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So a few days ago I upgraded the cage of my 3 year old pig and it is now big enough to host 2-3 pigs. I have 3 pigs and Finnian has been left by himself because he was not able to establish dominance and get along with the other two. Today, I tried again for the first time in over a year to get my pigs to interact so that Finnian does not have to be alone. They are still unable to establish dominance (after multiple hours of trying). I know this can take a long time, but I'm afraid of it turning sour because Finnian kept making high pitched wheeking and wanted to be left alone. Am I okay to separate the boars while I sleep and go to work, so that I can supervise them? I am afraid of leaving them alone while no one is here to make sure nothing happens until I am certain that they will get along. So, I guess my question is, is it okay that I separate them while I am not here while they get through the bonding phase, for their own safety and my peace of mind?
 

Piggylove82

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I'm no expert, but I think the failure rate for 3 boars is pretty high. Have you looked at the bonding guides here on the forum?
 

Piggylove82

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Oh, OK. I think you'll have to wait til the (UK) morning time for a reply. I am not knowledgeable to answer your question.

Hope everything works out for you though.
 

Pound Shilling & Pig

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Hi, sadly the chances of bonding three boars together is very low unless they have a huge amount of space, ie they have a whole room and not confined to a cage, or if they are elderly. I have bonded boars age six and over into trios before when one of a pair has lost his cagemate.I
The general rule is not to separate and reintroduce boars you are trying to bond as this sets the process back and they have to start over. I understand your fear tho of what could happen when you're not around and there is a high possibility if things do go wrong the bond between your pair of boys will be broken too and you will end up with three singles.I
Sometimes when adding a new sow into a large herd and she is aggressive and kicks off (usually because of fear and being overwelmed) I will remove her so every one can calm down and try again in a day or two, they are very good at remembering who not to front up to and usually the second introduction is much calmer. It is different for boars tho as their instincts tell them to drive away competition (for sows even if there aren't any around) so reintroducing "competion" can aggravate them more.
I think @furryfriends (TEAS) has introduced boar trios successfully several times so might be able to advise you better.
 

Piggies&buns

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The issues here are

Three boars together will be highly likely to fail at some point. Boars can’t live in anything other than pairs so that is why it failed first time. Trying again won’t change the outcome. It is difficult together the balance of characters right with a trio even more with a boar trio. To even attempt a boar pair, you need a larger cage than standard cage for three piggies - they will require at least a square metre of space per pig.

Bonding does not involve putting them together and then separating them again. As soon as you start a bonding between boar pairs they must stay together to conclusion - it’s either successful and they move harmoniously from their neutral pen into their cage together or it fails and they don’t get put together again. Interrupting any bonding process by introducing and separating causes stress and means they have to start all over again when you put them together again.

Bonding goes beyond initial introductions and takes a couple of weeks and even if initially things are ok, it can fail at any point during those few weeks. If there are issues already and finnian is stressed then you need to separate them and don’t attempt to put them back together again.

As long as finnian’s cage was next to your boar pair, then he was getting interaction through the baes. There would stave off loneliness but the best way to get him a friend is via boar dating at a rescue with another single boar, not by attempting a trio. At best it’ll fail and at worst it could destroy the bond of your pair meaning you run the risk of three single piggies
 

Alexandra West

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The issues here are

Three boars together will be highly likely to fail at some point. Boars can’t live in anything other than pairs so that is why it failed first time. Trying again won’t change the outcome. It is difficult together the balance of characters right with a trio even more with a boar trio. To even attempt a boar pair, you need a larger cage than standard cage for three piggies - they will require at least a square metre of space per pig.

Bonding does not involve putting them together and then separating them again. As soon as you start a bonding between boar pairs they must stay together to conclusion - it’s either successful and they move harmoniously from their neutral pen into their cage together or it fails and they don’t get put together again. Interrupting any bonding process by introducing and separating causes stress and means they have to start all over again when you put them together again.

Bonding goes beyond initial introductions and takes a couple of weeks and even if initially things are ok, it can fail at any point during those few weeks. If there are issues already and finnian is stressed then you need to separate them and don’t attempt to put them back together again.

As long as finnian’s cage was next to your boar pair, then he was getting interaction through the baes. There would stave off loneliness but the best way to get him a friend is via boar dating at a rescue with another single boar, not by attempting a trio. At best it’ll fail and at worst it could destroy the bond of your pair meaning you run the risk of three single piggies
Thank you so much; I understand that separating them was probably a mistake when I originally tried to have Finnian in a pair with the second oldest pig, Chex. I kept the pigs in the cage together tonight and all seemed to be fine until my oldest wanted some alone time but wasn't being left alone. They didn't fight, but Finnian was giving off a lot of warning signs and was making very unhappy noises so I decided to separate the pair from him. The pair stay in a room different from my own, where Finnian stays, due to lack of space for more than one well-sized C&C cage (Finnians is over the size needed for 3, so adding one big enough for two (which I have downstairs for my other two boars) is too much. I may have to do what was suggested and look into rescuing an older boar, which I was considering originally. Finnian is very friendly, but a very laid back, quiet pig and I think the other two younger boars just have too much energy and it annoys him (they kept jumping over him and that's kinda what get him to be annoyed). I feel bad he doesn't have a cage mate and I have for a long while, but I guess I initially messed up the bonding process because I wasn't fully sure as to what I was doing at the time. Thanks so much for your help. I will probably see about adopting an older piggo when the rescues are back open :)
 

Alexandra West

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Hi, sadly the chances of bonding three boars together is very low unless they have a huge amount of space, ie they have a whole room and not confined to a cage, or if they are elderly. I have bonded boars age six and over into trios before when one of a pair has lost his cagemate.I
The general rule is not to separate and reintroduce boars you are trying to bond as this sets the process back and they have to start over. I understand your fear tho of what could happen when you're not around and there is a high possibility if things do go wrong the bond between your pair of boys will be broken too and you will end up with three singles.I
Sometimes when adding a new sow into a large herd and she is aggressive and kicks off (usually because of fear and being overwelmed) I will remove her so every one can calm down and try again in a day or two, they are very good at remembering who not to front up to and usually the second introduction is much calmer. It is different for boars tho as their instincts tell them to drive away competition (for sows even if there aren't any around) so reintroducing "competion" can aggravate them more.
I think @furryfriends (TEAS) has introduced boar trios successfully several times so might be able to advise you better.
Thanks so much for your advice. I see now that I messed up when originally trying to introduce Finnian and the second oldest (Chex) into the mix because I separated them while bonding. I fully take responsibility for this, as I wasn't sure what I was doing at the time. I didn't separate them tonight until things got a bit questionable with my oldest and he started noticeably getting angry from being jumped over and chased around, so I might just have to rescue an older piggo and see about introducing them. Thanks so much for your advice! I wish I didn't mess up in the past when Finnian was younger, but what's done is done, sadly :(
I will keep this in mind if/when I get other boars int eh future to bond, as I was very uneducated at the time. Thanks so much for helping; I totally needed it :)
 

Piggies&buns

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Thank you so much; I understand that separating them was probably a mistake when I originally tried to have Finnian in a pair with the second oldest pig, Chex. I kept the pigs in the cage together tonight and all seemed to be fine until my oldest wanted some alone time but wasn't being left alone. They didn't fight, but Finnian was giving off a lot of warning signs and was making very unhappy noises so I decided to separate the pair from him. The pair stay in a room different from my own, where Finnian stays, due to lack of space for more than one well-sized C&C cage (Finnians is over the size needed for 3, so adding one big enough for two (which I have downstairs for my other two boars) is too much. I may have to do what was suggested and look into rescuing an older boar, which I was considering originally. Finnian is very friendly, but a very laid back, quiet pig and I think the other two younger boars just have too much energy and it annoys him (they kept jumping over him and that's kinda what get him to be annoyed). I feel bad he doesn't have a cage mate and I have for a long while, but I guess I initially messed up the bonding process because I wasn't fully sure as to what I was doing at the time. Thanks so much for your help. I will probably see about adopting an older piggo when the rescues are back open :)

Just for clarification, it’s character which is the key to the success of a bond not age - the pairs age would not have made much of a difference to the outcome - it’s simply that boar tried are notoriously difficult to get to work in any event.
Equally, you say about getting finnian an older boar to bond with - again, the age is largely irrelevant, he has to find a pig with the correct character to be his friend, he may find himself a young man whom he bonds with better than an older one
Finnian will absolutely appreciate having one other boar to live with so it would be great for him if you can speak to a rescue centre about boar dating or even If they don’t offer dating, then they will likely still be able to help. Bear in mind that he may need to be tried with several different piggies before the right one is found.
Good luck and do let us know how you get on
 

furryfriends (TEAS)

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Hi, sadly the chances of bonding three boars together is very low unless they have a huge amount of space, ie they have a whole room and not confined to a cage, or if they are elderly. I have bonded boars age six and over into trios before when one of a pair has lost his cagemate.I
The general rule is not to separate and reintroduce boars you are trying to bond as this sets the process back and they have to start over. I understand your fear tho of what could happen when you're not around and there is a high possibility if things do go wrong the bond between your pair of boys will be broken too and you will end up with three singles.I
Sometimes when adding a new sow into a large herd and she is aggressive and kicks off (usually because of fear and being overwelmed) I will remove her so every one can calm down and try again in a day or two, they are very good at remembering who not to front up to and usually the second introduction is much calmer. It is different for boars tho as their instincts tell them to drive away competition (for sows even if there aren't any around) so reintroducing "competion" can aggravate them more.
I think @furryfriends (TEAS) has introduced boar trios successfully several times so might be able to advise you better.

I've had boar trios many times, very successfully and I truly believe it is more about temperament than gender, as to whether this is going to work. However, it could be that I've been very lucky in that the boars have been very laid-back. I even had a group of five boars, who were the most closely bonded group I've ever had (these ranged in age from 3 - 7 years). More recently I added a baby boar to a pair of young boars and this worked for a few weeks, but then I could see it was causing tension between the original two, so I moved the baby boar out and the pair have settled again. I think the advice I would give is, if they all seem happy with the situation, then go ahead, but if any one of them is not happy, or true aggression is breaking out, then it isn't worth pursuing, as it could irreversibly damage the bond you have with the pair.
 

Hog lips

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This is the issue I'm having at the moment, I have a bereaved boy from a pair and another established pair. I did try last year to mix both pairs in neutral ground as I'd like them all to be freerange but it was evident straight away that it wasn't going to work and I didn't want to risk upsetting the established bonds. My bereaved guy is going to be paired up with a rescue pig next weekend all being well.
 

Wiebke

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So a few days ago I upgraded the cage of my 3 year old pig and it is now big enough to host 2-3 pigs. I have 3 pigs and Finnian has been left by himself because he was not able to establish dominance and get along with the other two. Today, I tried again for the first time in over a year to get my pigs to interact so that Finnian does not have to be alone. They are still unable to establish dominance (after multiple hours of trying). I know this can take a long time, but I'm afraid of it turning sour because Finnian kept making high pitched wheeking and wanted to be left alone. Am I okay to separate the boars while I sleep and go to work, so that I can supervise them? I am afraid of leaving them alone while no one is here to make sure nothing happens until I am certain that they will get along. So, I guess my question is, is it okay that I separate them while I am not here while they get through the bonding phase, for their own safety and my peace of mind?

Hi!

Please be aware that by far not all bondings of any combination don't work out, and that there is no magic wand measure that can make them. Once the interaction turns sour, you have unfortunately had it, whatever the gender or constellation. Like with an arranged flat share it is all about whether personalities mesh or not; it's not about gender or age. And there is never any predicting because it is very much down to the individual personalities and the dynamics between them.

This goes especially for any piggies you buy on spec for introductions. Rescue dating boars has shown that it takes on average about two candidates (i.e. 1-3 introduction) to find a new boarmate of any age (including babies!) they vibe with.
With trios of any sort, the success rate is less than 50 %. In boar trios the success rate sinks even further the more sub-adult boars are involved in the bond (teenage hormone spikes); but if they are older and the testosterone output has fizzled out or there are disabled piggies involved, then acceptance is generally higher

Loud squealing is submission squealing by the way. The one thing you cannot do with boars is bon them in stages as the whole dominance sort-out has to happen right back in square one yet again.
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

Accept that this bond is not going to work out and keep Finnian as a next door neighbour to the pair with interaction and stimulation through the bars.
 
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