Depression in Guinea Pigs & Herd Alienation

[CutieAgouti]

Hi all, this query is primarily about bonding but also includes some health concerns, so please direct me if I have posted this in the wrong sub! Currently, my youngest girl seems to be exhibiting symptoms of depression and is acting like she has fallen out with the herd.

She has been to the vet and been given a clean bill of health with no obvious signs of illness. She is bright and moving fine, but has stopped eating unless I hand feed her (I have since been syringe feeding water and critical care, as well as coaxing her with fresh grass and vegetables which she is eating in moderation, but nowhere near as much as usual). She ignores the other girls, scuttling past them and only briefly joining them to eat high value food like greens at dinner time; she is not interested in hay, pellets or water, she just finds a hidey to stay in for most of the day.

I have isolated her for a couple of nights already to see if she felt better about coming out to eat and drink, but even away from the others, she has made no attempt to leave her hidey. She is young, only about 9 months and she has lived in the herd for about 3 months now. She is a rescue and I am wondering if she has had a fight with another sow that has led to her feeling scared and insecure. She has no injuries and neither do any of the others, but it seems she is psychologically changed and with her lack of appetite, I worry that her health is going to deteriorate if she doesn’t start to act normally again.

I do, however, have the option to bond her to a neutered male, so I’m wondering if she would be better taken from the herd to live in a pair with a male, or is it too soon to consider something like that? Do sows often recover their bonds with other females, or is it more likely that her self-isolating behaviour will continue unless she is removed?

 

[Viennese Furbabies]

How big is your group? How are the others acting?
Is your girl acting more herself when seperated from the others?
Have there been any changes in the environment or anything that could have spooked your girl?
Is your vet cavy savy?

It is a bit unusual for a healthy sow to stop eating over a longer period of time just because of a minor upset in the group after living with this group for three months.
But guinea pigs can be rather complicated.

 

[CutieAgouti]

They are a group of 8 and the others are all acting perfectly normal. They have ample space and multiple floors for the very reason that they may like to get away from each other now and then, as well as multiple feeding stations, so it’s not hard for an individual pig to avoid another that they might have fallen out with. She is no more herself away from them than she is with them and there have been no changes to their environment, diet, or any newcomers to upset her. The vet did a very thorough examination of her as my first thought was that she might be developing a URI when I noticed her acting withdrawn and puffed up; she has had her teeth checked, temperature taken etc but the vet couldn’t find anything physically wrong. She is interested in eating grass and veggies, but as described, she seems to just confine herself to a hidey and does not come out to eat hay or drink water, which is my main concern. It’s a tricky one, as it appears to be behavioural rather than a health problem

 

[Wiebke]

They are a group of 8 and the others are all acting perfectly normal. They have ample space and multiple floors for the very reason that they may like to get away from each other now and then, as well as multiple feeding stations, so it’s not hard for an individual pig to avoid another that they might have fallen out with. She is no more herself away from them than she is with them and there have been no changes to their environment, diet, or any newcomers to upset her. The vet did a very thorough examination of her as my first thought was that she might be developing a URI when I noticed her acting withdrawn and puffed up; she has had her teeth checked, temperature taken etc but the vet couldn’t find anything physically wrong. She is interested in eating grass and veggies, but as described, she seems to just confine herself to a hidey and does not come out to eat hay or drink water, which is my main concern. It’s a tricky one, as it appears to be behavioural rather than a health problem

Hi and welcome

Puffing up is a pain symptom; unfortunately, it is rather vague and usually indicates an internal pain source of some sort, including internal masses or even a brain tumour.

Thread 'Signs of Pain in Guinea Pigs'

May 7, 2022

1 Symptoms of pain
- Loss of appetite and slow or reduced eating
- Eyes
- Ears
- Teeth clicking and grinding
- Skin biting, self-barbering and hair loss
- Fur standing up/puffed up coat
- Hunching
- Bunching up and stopping to sleep on the side
- Grunting
- Twisting/Fitting
- Squeaking when peeing/pooing; arching and straining
- Limping, hopping, swelling of foot or leg
- Partial or full back leg paralysis
- Screaming and whimpering
2 Life-saving practical how-to care and information...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Health & Illness Support Corner

• 

Would your vet trial a significant short term dose of painkiller to see whether symptoms she perks up or not? This would then give you another avenue to pursue. It won't work with a cosmetic dose of metacam.

 

[CutieAgouti]

She was puffed up on the first day after I assume she had a fight. Since her vet visit, she has been completely well in herself, no hunching, limping or any other symptoms of pain; the only abnormality is her lack of appetite Her eyes are bright and she is alert, vocal and still keen when she hears a bag of salad rustle. She happily eats grass and treats when hand fed, but as the feeding stations with hay and pellets are a more communal setup, I’m assuming she is afraid to go to them because she’s had a fight there. For now I am going to keep her isolated with a hay and water source that only she can access, so I can monitor if she eats and drinks and see if there is improvement, however, I’m concerned that even after some time being separated, she may never want to go back to the herd.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear this.
Of course a health issue must be ruled out first but if she is completely healthy then you can look to behavioural/bond issues.

First thing to check is their cage size. Multiple levels don’t count towards the cage size so it needs to be big enough in the ground level - that would be 22 square feet for 8 sows.
Do all hides have two exits?
Is there anywhere she may have been cornered by someone else and felt attacked?

Do remember that the routine weight checks are the only way to monitor hay intake. Isolating her doesn’t help a huge amount with this.
Weight checks should be done weekly as routine but done daily when there are health concerns. This allows you to monitor independent hay intake but also to ensure adequate syringe feeding to keep weight stable each day.

It really comes down to determining whether she was isolating herself because she was feeling off or because the bond is dysfunctional.
If the bond is fine and she was feeling off then we wouldn’t recommend separation. Medical separations aren’t necessarily helpful - they can cause stress and do damage to bonds, plus as mentioned don’t allow you to monitor hay intake in any event.

If the bond is dysfunctional, then they would be unlikely to/wont go back together no matter how long or short a separation is. You are likely to see her become happier during the separation and that in itself is a pretty good indicator that she doesn’t want to be with them.

A neutral territory reintroduction will allow you to determine this - they will either go back together and be ok or it’ll become clear she is happier alone (ie the bond is failing).

Thread 'Bonds In Trouble'

Oct 30, 2017

1 Causes for bonds to fall apart
2 Bonds in Crisis
- What are the signs of a dysfunctional bond?
- Bullying
- How can I test whether a bond is no longer working?
3 Failed bonds and what next?
- What to do if my piggies have had a major fight?
- When rebonding doesn't work out


1 Causes for bonds to fall apart

Every fall-out has of course its own...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 1
• Forum: Bonding & Fall-outs

• 

 

[CutieAgouti]

The ground floor of their enclosure is over 26 square foot with three lofts and it leads to an upper level of the same square footage. Not all of their hideys have two exits however, as a lot of them are fleece houses, so it could very well be possible that another sow cornered her in a hidey.

However, this doesn’t seem to have put her off staying in one as she seems to hide most of the time now that her appetite is off. I have penned off an area for her without fully removing her from the herd, and she has been quite happily interacting through the grids with the girls who have come to see her, so I am hoping that their bond is not broken and that she is maybe just a little in shock for possibly having had a fight with someone.

I have been weighing her and while her weight hasn’t dropped massively, her poops are very small, so I can tell she is not eating much in between syringe feedings and getting her grass and greens. As I can’t be 100% certain that there’s not something else going on internally, I will book her in for another check over at the vet, but from what I can tell, she’s exhibiting no pain or weakness, just a loss of appetite

I would really like to avoid removing her if I can, as she has gotten on so well for three months and it seems odd that things should suddenly fall apart now, but of course, I want the best for my guinea pigs, so if she does prove to be happier away from the herd, I will look to separate her.

Thank you for your advice and for signposting me to further reading! Hopefully I can at least get a better idea of what the best options are for her.

 

[Piggies&buns]

The ground floor of their enclosure is over 26 square foot with three lofts and it leads to an upper level of the same square footage. Not all of their hideys have two exits however, as a lot of them are fleece houses, so it could very well be possible that another sow cornered her in a hidey.

However, this doesn’t seem to have put her off staying in one as she seems to hide most of the time now that her appetite is off. I have penned off an area for her without fully removing her from the herd, and she has been quite happily interacting through the grids with the girls who have come to see her, so I am hoping that their bond is not broken and that she is maybe just a little in shock for possibly having had a fight with someone.

I have been weighing her and while her weight hasn’t dropped massively, her poops are very small, so I can tell she is not eating much in between syringe feedings and getting her grass and greens. As I can’t be 100% certain that there’s not something else going on internally, I will book her in for another check over at the vet, but from what I can tell, she’s exhibiting no pain or weakness, just a loss of appetite

I would really like to avoid removing her if I can, as she has gotten on so well for three months and it seems odd that things should suddenly fall apart now, but of course, I want the best for my guinea pigs, so if she does prove to be happier away from the herd, I will look to separate her.

Thank you for your advice and for signposting me to further reading! Hopefully I can at least get a better idea of what the best options are for her.

A bond can unfortunately have something happen to it at any time - an illness can lead to one pig being pushed about etc.
Of course if there was an actual fight then the bond with at least that piggy will be broken, and depending on positions in the hierarchy whether she will be accepted back is not something that can be predicted until you try.

It would be a good idea to get her checked again - Loss of appetite is in itself a general sign that something is wrong .

I hope she is ok

 

[Wiebke]

A bond can unfortunately have something happen to it at any time - an illness can lead to one pig being pushed about etc.
Of course if there was an actual fight then the bond with at least they piggy will be broken, and depending on positions in the hierarchy whether she will be accepted back is not something that can be predicted until you try.

It would be a good idea to get her checked again - Loss of appetite is in itself a general sign that something is wrong .

I hope she is ok

I second this advice.