Does This Behavior Mean Sows Are Bonded?

[GuineaPigGrammy]

I’ve had my two sows for almost 6 months. I got them when they were about 6 weeks old. One is very feisty & moody, the other sweet & shy, they are both adorable. The feisty one (Minnie) tends to be the bully. The bullying behavior goes on day after day and is worse when Minnie is in season. Sweet & shy Daisy is very nervous around Minnie (initially she wanted to cuddle & be Minnie's besty), fussing & squeaking whenever Minnie is near, sometimes shrieking like she is being murdered (Minnie obviously nipping her). At other times she just pees in Minnie’s face when being chased. Daisy is constantly trying to get out of Minnie’s way. Minnie will butt Daisy out of a hidey when there are 2 available of everything in their home, or of course she wants the same food Daisy is trying to eat, poking Daisy and chasing her away, then follow her where she goes to repeat the process. While chillin on the couch with me Minnie will thump Daisy for no reason and her look is "What? I didn't do it." They have a 2x4 ft. cage with a ramp & loft area so plenty of space to get away from each other but Minnie is determined to make Daisy’s life miserable. They also get floor time on a regular basis. I’ve tried separating them temporarily, but after going mental to see each other again the same bully trend picks up when they are back together. They are not losing weight or look sick otherwise and they have never gotten into a full out bloody fight.

I’m taking Minnie to the vet tomorrow to see if there is anything physical going on like cysts or something, she seems extremely hormonal. I’m at my wits end trying to be patient while these two work it out, which doesn’t seem to be happening, in my opinion anyway. I don’t have enough room for two cages and it will break my heart if I have to give one up. Does the bonding process sometimes take a very long time or should I just accept the fact they are not going to bond, or is this behavior mean they are bonded? It's just too stressful to see my pigs in any kind of distress! I’m in Denver, CO USA – thanks for any advice

 

[Adelle]

It wouldnt do any harm to have minnie checked over, but it may just be the way she is. Piggies also go through another hormonal spurt around this age, so they will still be acting like teenagers! Giving them more space may help if you have that option. I'm sure someone will be along soon with further advice :-)

 

[GuineaPigGrammy]

Thanks for such a speedy reply I'm anxious to hear what the doc has to say tomorrow. Will post status.

 

[Keiko The Pig]

It's promising that they did not enjoy their trial separation. It's means that Minnie's bullying is not bad enough to put your other girl off enjoying/wanting the companionship. As long as Daisy is still getting enough food/water and rest I would say just let them be and get on with it. My boys are in their first hormone stage too (one is 4 months the other approaching 3) and I've noticed the increase in mounting and little irritated chirping with some nose jabs but it's also warm weather hitting now which I notice tends to make my boys a bit more irritable.

 

[Mad Piggy Lady]

It might be that they are just at 'that age' and are being moody teenagers. I have a devil pig who was dreadful to her cage mates for weeks. But she has settled down a lot more now......

 

[Wiebke]

It wouldnt do any harm to have minnie checked over, but it may just be the way she is. Piggies also go through another hormonal spurt around this age, so they will still be acting like teenagers! Giving them more space may help if you have that option. I'm sure someone will be along soon with further advice :-)

Hi! Your girls are clearly bonded, or they wouldn't want to be back together. Minnie is very hormonal and dominant (some teenage sows can be as hormonal as boars although it is less well known as it usually doesn't end in fights and fall-outs), and her behaviour is verging on the bullying, but as long as Daisy wants to be with her, you have to bear it. It means that their bond is functioning.

There are things that you can do:
- have things in threes instead of just two and preferably have hideys with two openings on opposite sides so Daisy can get out of the way easier when Minnie is throwing her weight around.
- feed veg and pellets in small portions 2-3 times a day that can be eaten instantly instead of leaving them out to prevent Minnie from food hogging. Feed in two bowls well away from each other and have a third bowl with a little extra in hand to use as a distraction if necessary.
Your two girls are now at an age where you can very slowly and gradually start to limit the pellets and reduce them to the handful or half handful (ca. 1/2 oz) that they need as adults from 15 months onwards. Hay should make up to 80% of the daily food intake, so your girls won't suffer as long as you make sure that you ideally have hay in two places well away from each other, so Minnie can't block Daisy. The same goes for water bottles.

PS: Sows don't develop ovarian cysts before they are adults of at least 18 months old at the very earliest, and more usually have them later in life. The majority of cysts goes unnoticed and never causes any problems.

Sow Behaviour
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

 

[GuineaPigGrammy]

Hi! Your girls are clearly bonded, or they wouldn't want to be back together. Minnie is very hormonal and dominant (some teenage sows can be as hormonal as boars although it is less well known as it usually doesn't end in fights and fall-outs), and her behaviour is verging on the bullying, but as long as Daisy wants to be with her, you have to bear it. It means that their bond is functioning.

There are things that you can do:
- have things in threes instead of just two and preferably have hideys with two openings on opposite sides so Daisy can get out of the way easier when Minnie is throwing her weight around.
- feed veg and pellets in small portions 2-3 times a day that can be eaten instantly instead of leaving them out to prevent Minnie from food hogging. Feed in two bowls well away from each other and have a third bowl with a little extra in hand to use as a distraction if necessary.
Your two girls are now at an age where you can very slowly and gradually start to limit the pellets and reduce them to the handful or half handful (ca. 1/2 oz) that they need as adults from 15 months onwards. Hay should make up to 80% of the daily food intake, so your girls won't suffer as long as you make sure that you ideally have hay in two places well away from each other, so Minnie can't block Daisy. The same goes for water bottles.

PS: Sows don't develop ovarian cysts before they are adults of at least 18 months old at the very earliest, and more usually have them later in life. The majority of cysts goes unnoticed and never causes any problems.

Sow Behaviour
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

Thank you for all the positive feedback! Seriously, I'm sure this is more stressful for me than my girls. So I came home tonight and Minnie hadn't eaten anything and just looked sad - I still had them separated. So I held her for a while and then decided to just put her back home with Daisy. As soon as she realized where she was she starting popcorning and running up and down the ramp, even grabbed her ball and through it in the air! Daisy was a little dazed,like "oh it's you again" LOL, then she did a couple popcorns This is what I love to see, but dang the hormonal meanness really gets to me! Minnie started eating and well, Daisy is always eating. I will still take Minnie to vet tomorrow just to be on the safe side, I'm concerned that she hadn't eaten anything all day. I do have a couple of "in/out" hideys in their cage and two of everything <hay, water (3 actually), pellets> but I may add another for good measure. Right now Minnie seems happy as a clam but she is also done with her bi-monthly "period."
Thanks again for the helpful information, I will try to relax & I love this blog!

 

[Freela]

Some sows are really domineering, especially when they are younger. I had a very dominant girl (Linney) who definitely ruled with an iron fist over the two subordinate pigs that she shared her space with over the years (first we had Linney and Frenzy with Linney clearly being the boss, then after Frenzy unfortunately passed away we deliberately chose Sundae because she was very submissive to the pigs that she was living with when we got her. We knew that Linney would not tolerate anyone who wanted to challenge her for top pig status!) It so happened that the two subordinate pigs were fine with Linney being the leader so in spite of the odd episode of meanness from Linney (chasing the other pigs out of her favorite spots, the odd 'out of my way' neck bite to keep the underlings in line), they got along fine, and Sundae really, REALLY missed Linney when she finally passed away at the age of six. We then adopted Hadley and Sundae got right back to toeing the line being subordinate to a tiny baby half her size, so she clearly has no desire to be top pig.

The things that I have tried to keep in mind is not to place human emotions on guinea pig behavior. It's not a sad state for a pig to be the subordinate pig. They have a hierarchical society. Someone has to be the boss. Not every subordinate pig wants to be the boss (Sundae clearly doesn't!) Although it doesn't come up as much in domestic animals, in the wild in a larger group the dominant pig would have some responsibility to 'lead' the others- keeping the hierarchy, responding to potential threats, etc. (even in my own pairs it's funny to see Sundae look to the leader if she's uncomfortable- for instance, if the two are startled by a noise outside, Sundae immediate looks to the boss pig to see what they do. She doesn't relax and resume eating until they do. The head pig is obviously calling the shots in terms of threat assessment, etc.) Sundae was obviously very lost without someone to follow, to the point that she would cry and would be afraid to leave the cage when she was alone. So it's very possible that a subordinate pig is very happy being a subordinate pig. That squealing noise isn't pain or distress either- it's capitulation. The squealing pig is basically saying, "I know, you're the boss, I'm not challenging you!" They sound distressed to us, but they're sending a message to the dominant pig that is somewhat different than what we hear.

It's also worth noting that, at this age, hormones are raging. They are 'teenagers.' Your dominant pig will likely mellow with age (mine did... even Linney, though she was feisty right up to her last day!) In the absence of actual fights, I would leave them to work it out so long as both pigs are able to eat, drink, rest, etc. If your subordinate pig is meek and mild, she may not be that put out by her bossy companion, and may even feel 'lost' without a dominant pig providing leadership.

 

[GuineaPigGrammy]

Thank you for your support - it means a lot. I realize I'm the one who needs to mellow out and not worry about my little girls. I have to admit they go along well for a while then Minnie starts doing her mean thing and it gets to me because Daisy is so sweet and innocent. But, I do understand what you are saying, especially that when Daisy is squealing bloody murder I need not get upset but accept that it's normal behavior. They have never fought or hurt each badly. I have to be more patient!

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for all the positive feedback! Seriously, I'm sure this is more stressful for me than my girls. So I came home tonight and Minnie hadn't eaten anything and just looked sad - I still had them separated. So I held her for a while and then decided to just put her back home with Daisy. As soon as she realized where she was she starting popcorning and running up and down the ramp, even grabbed her ball and through it in the air! Daisy was a little dazed,like "oh it's you again" LOL, then she did a couple popcorns This is what I love to see, but dang the hormonal meanness really gets to me! Minnie started eating and well, Daisy is always eating. I will still take Minnie to vet tomorrow just to be on the safe side, I'm concerned that she hadn't eaten anything all day. I do have a couple of "in/out" hideys in their cage and two of everything <hay, water (3 actually), pellets> but I may add another for good measure. Right now Minnie seems happy as a clam but she is also done with her bi-monthly "period."
Thanks again for the helpful information, I will try to relax & I love this blog!

Don't worry about Minnie, she'll catch up on food quickly now that she is happy again!

 

[Freela]

Thank you for your support - it means a lot. I realize I'm the one who needs to mellow out and not worry about my little girls. I have to admit they go along well for a while then Minnie starts doing her mean thing and it gets to me because Daisy is so sweet and innocent. But, I do understand what you are saying, especially that when Daisy is squealing bloody murder I need not get upset but accept that it's normal behavior. They have never fought or hurt each badly. I have to be more patient!

I think that we love our critters and it's easy to personify them and see them as tiny people in fur coats rather than guinea pigs with their own inherent pecking order, communication, etc. Since getting my first pair of pigs about 8 years ago now, I have learned a lot about guinea pig society and communication and it makes it easier not to see them in human terms but on their own terms. It's kind of an ongoing science project to figure out what the dynamic is between them on their terms instead of on ours. I'm now learning a lot by virtue of having a less bossy dominant sow along with a very timid underling, however given the age gap between them (dominant Hadley is 18 months or so, subordinate Sundae is 6 years and 3 months) I will very likely have to match Hadley with another companion at some point and I am not sure how the chips will fall if we end up with a personality type that is more domineering than Hadley, or one that is naturally inclined to seek dominance. I've never had to pair a 'laid back boss' with another pig... we always had 'Queen Linney' who very quickly made everyone toe the line and likely would not have been able to live with another pig with a similar disposition, so I've really never seen a hierarchy change and am worried about how that would play out in the future!

 

[GuineaPigGrammy]

I think that we love our critters and it's easy to personify them and see them as tiny people in fur coats rather than guinea pigs with their own inherent pecking order, communication, etc. Since getting my first pair of pigs about 8 years ago now, I have learned a lot about guinea pig society and communication and it makes it easier not to see them in human terms but on their own terms. It's kind of an ongoing science project to figure out what the dynamic is between them on their terms instead of on ours. I'm now learning a lot by virtue of having a less bossy dominant sow along with a very timid underling, however given the age gap between them (dominant Hadley is 18 months or so, subordinate Sundae is 6 years and 3 months) I will very likely have to match Hadley with another companion at some point and I am not sure how the chips will fall if we end up with a personality type that is more domineering than Hadley, or one that is naturally inclined to seek dominance. I've never had to pair a 'laid back boss' with another pig... we always had 'Queen Linney' who very quickly made everyone toe the line and likely would not have been able to live with another pig with a similar disposition, so I've really never seen a hierarchy change and am worried about how that would play out in the future!

You are absolutely right about seeing them as tiny people in fur coats! That's what I have to work on for my own sanity - to accept them as intelligent animals with their own way of doing things. Minnie & Daisy are peaceful now that Minnie's hormonal episode has subsided. The vet declared Minnie extremely healthy and her behavior perfectly normal, providing the same suggestions I read here. Vet also said spaying should not be considered until she is at least 1.5 years old, adding that spaying can be beneficial in that girl piggies have a tendency to develop female problems later in life and spaying her might extend her life a couple years, but it's totally up to me and that will have to be evaluated when we get there! I hope you don't have to worry about pairing your Hadley up in the near future. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to lose a pig and then have to find them another buddy. I think with your experience and knowledge it shouldn't be a problem at all
Side note: When I was a kid my family raised guinea pigs! After we got our first female pig (Sarah) (already having 3 males - Pork, Beans & Zoro) we had 20-30 guinea pigs running around our back yard in no time, LOL. My dad built them an enormous hutch in the yard and we just loved them. That's why I decided on guinea pigs as pets rather than a dog or cat. As an adult however, I'm having to start all over learning about the bonding/dominance/behavior/diet etc. (which we knew nothing about as kids) and although it can be frustrating at times my little girls give me great joy and happiness just watching & interacting with them.

 

[Wiebke]

You are absolutely right about seeing them as tiny people in fur coats! That's what I have to work on for my own sanity - to accept them as intelligent animals with their own way of doing things. Minnie & Daisy are peaceful now that Minnie's hormonal episode has subsided. The vet declared Minnie extremely healthy and her behavior perfectly normal, providing the same suggestions I read here. Vet also said spaying should not be considered until she is at least 1.5 years old, adding that spaying can be beneficial in that girl piggies have a tendency to develop female problems later in life and spaying her might extend her life a couple years, but it's totally up to me and that will have to be evaluated when we get there! I hope you don't have to worry about pairing your Hadley up in the near future. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to lose a pig and then have to find them another buddy. I think with your experience and knowledge it shouldn't be a problem at all
Side note: When I was a kid my family raised guinea pigs! After we got our first female pig (Sarah) (already having 3 males - Pork, Beans & Zoro) we had 20-30 guinea pigs running around our back yard in no time, LOL. My dad built them an enormous hutch in the yard and we just loved them. That's why I decided on guinea pigs as pets rather than a dog or cat. As an adult however, I'm having to start all over learning about the bonding/dominance/behavior/diet etc. (which we knew nothing about as kids) and although it can be frustrating at times my little girls give me great joy and happiness just watching & interacting with them.

We have got a recommended good standard rescues locator on the top bar, and can provide a link to recommended rescues in other countries. Many of these will let you bring your own guinea pig for dating at the rescue, if that is possible and if you have a rescue within your reach that offers this option.

To be honest, I have so far had only one sow that ever needed an emergency spay later in life, and I have/have had a fair number of piggies, most which have lived and are living to a good age. But that is your choice. The only comment I would make is that you need a good and experienced vet in small furries operations/guinea pig spaying for the operation, as it is a major one.

Since we have members from all over the world, we would like to ask you help us by adding your country, state/province or UK county to your details, so we can adapt any advice to what is relevant where you are.
Please click on your username on the top bar, then go to personal details and scroll down to location. Thank you!

 

[GuineaPigGrammy]

Thank you - the largest guinea pig rescue in Colorado is not far from where I live (cavycareinc). I wanted to adopt two female pigs but unfortunately the rescue had no females available when I was looking. After several months of waiting I gave up and found my girls at the pet store. The vet who examined Minnie also said that if I do decide to have her spayed when she is older to please be sure & have it done by a very experienced exotics/guinea pig vet (which this doctor is). I'm confident that it won't be necessary since Minnie is still very young and I'm hopeful she will grow out of her grumpy hormonal episodes. Honestly, when she is not in season she is sweet as can be, she and Daisy get along fine. Both my girls get plenty of food, water, rest, etc., I keep a very close eye on them. In fact, I installed a security camera in their room so I can monitor them from my phone when I'm not at home!

I appreciate all the help & advice, this blog is awesome and has really encouraged a better understanding of my guinea pigs and their behavior! I entered my location info in my profile

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you - the largest guinea pig rescue in Colorado is not far from where I live (cavycareinc). I wanted to adopt two female pigs but unfortunately the rescue had no females available when I was looking. After several months of waiting I gave up and found my girls at the pet store. The vet who examined Minnie also said that if I do decide to have her spayed when she is older to please be sure & have it done by a very experienced exotics/guinea pig vet (which this doctor is). I'm confident that it won't be necessary since Minnie is still very young and I'm hopeful she will grow out of her grumpy hormonal episodes. Honestly, when she is not in season she is sweet as can be, she and Daisy get along fine. Both my girls get plenty of food, water, rest, etc., I keep a very close eye on them. In fact, I installed a security camera in their room so I can monitor them from my phone when I'm not at home!

I appreciate all the help & advice, this blog is awesome and has really encouraged a better understanding of my guinea pigs and their behavior! I entered my location info in my profile

I understand that Cavy Care Inc has been temporarily closed earlier this year, but they are an awesome place from what I have seen and got from when I exchanged some messages with them. It is the best (and only decent) rescue in that part of the Midwest. Cavy Care may be able to help you finding the best piggy savvy vet if you ever need help in that respect; their vet should have plenty of experience by now.

You may find the information in our new owners bundle helpful: " Starter Kit" Of Information Threads For New Owners

 

[GuineaPigGrammy]

I understand that Cavy Care Inc has been temporarily closed, but they are an awesome place from what I have seen and got from when I exchanged some messages with them. It is the best (and only decent) rescue in that part of the Midwest. Cavy Care may be able to help you finding the best piggy savvy vet if you ever need help in that respect; their vet should have plenty of experience by now.

You may find the information in our new owners bundle helpful: " Starter Kit" Of Information Threads For New Owners

Yes Cavy Care Inc is great. According to their website they are open, just only take appointments. And the vet they recommend on their website for my area is the place I took my Minnie to