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Dottie’s breathing and skin issues

PS I think she tried to eat some of her cardboard house which I understand can mean a lack of fibre, which I would make sense if she’s eating less hay. Is it fine to let her do this? Thanks
 
LucyP said:
PS I think she tried to eat some of her cardboard house which I understand can mean a lack of fibre, which I would make sense if she’s eating less hay. Is it fine to let her do this? Thanks
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As long as she is more nibbling and not eating large chunks, it is OK.

Too much can very occasionally cause a blockage when the cardboard swells up in the gut because of the digestive juices and gets stuck.

Instead, you can offer more hay fibre based recovery formula in a bowl, which you can flavour with mushed banana to make it more like a treat or temporarily feed extra soaked pellet mush in a bowl and see whether that goes down better.
 
Thank you! She's not that interested in the box since then and is quite off everything...when I tried to offer her syringe feed just now from my lap she whimpered to be put back which was upsetting as I don't know if it's pain or just being fed up with all the attention. (Normally she takes meds and top up feed in her cage with no bother, sometimes today I've had to pick her up a few times).

I will try the critical care and banana, thank you. She nibbles hay and a bit of veg, there are some poos but not as many as there should be I feel. I wish I could trust the scales but with the possibility of fluid gain, weight can be misleading! But then again, I thought if she had more fluid, her breathing would be more laboured and it isn't really. So confusing.

I hope this is a mild digestive blip and not something major. I am always half expecting her poor little heart to give up at any time but this may be something else. The other thing that's making this so hard I think is that her enjoying food was an important quality of life marker. If that has changed it means we're closer to those horrible quality of life decisions.. Mostly it's just sad to see her below par. I wish they could tell us what was happening!
 
LucyP said:
Thank you! She's not that interested in the box since then and is quite off everything...when I tried to offer her syringe feed just now from my lap she whimpered to be put back which was upsetting as I don't know if it's pain or just being fed up with all the attention. (Normally she takes meds and top up feed in her cage with no bother, sometimes today I've had to pick her up a few times).

I will try the critical care and banana, thank you. She nibbles hay and a bit of veg, there are some poos but not as many as there should be I feel. I wish I could trust the scales but with the possibility of fluid gain, weight can be misleading! But then again, I thought if she had more fluid, her breathing would be more laboured and it isn't really. So confusing.

I hope this is a mild digestive blip and not something major. I am always half expecting her poor little heart to give up at any time but this may be something else. The other thing that's making this so hard I think is that her enjoying food was an important quality of life marker. If that has changed it means we're closer to those horrible quality of life decisions.. Mostly it's just sad to see her below par. I wish they could tell us what was happening!
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HUGS

It would be so much easier if small children and pets could tell us what was wrong with them. the decrease in poos usually corresponds to a decrease in food intake on the previous day, especially a decreased hay intake. Try and see whether she also likes mushy pellets or whether she could have a pain issue. But it is difficult when you start feeling like you are clutching at straws. :(

My thoughts are with you.
 
I’d like to spare her the stress of the vets and the taxi trip through loud parts of London, but I think it may be helpful to try to understand the source of her discomfort. Although another part of me wonders what it would actually change. But I think face to face may be better than a call.
 
I gave Dottie a few bits and of food overnight and she ate some leaves followed by hay. And some water from a syringe. Just now o was very happy as she squeaked for some leaves and ate very enthusiastically, much more lively than yesterday. She’s also accepting parsley which she wasn’t for a few days (which had been another alarm bell as she loves it normally). I haven’t had to pick her up yet (may need to for meds) so I don’t know if she’ll react to that and I won’t be deliberately poking her or pressing on anything as there’s no need for me to cause extra distress trying to hold figure it out when we’re seeing the vets this morning who’ll actually know what they’re doing!

Pleased to see her looking lively but still concerned of course. Thanks for the support.
 
LucyP said:
I gave Dottie a few bits and of food overnight and she ate some leaves followed by hay. And some water from a syringe. Just now o was very happy as she squeaked for some leaves and ate very enthusiastically, much more lively than yesterday. She’s also accepting parsley which she wasn’t for a few days (which had been another alarm bell as she loves it normally). I haven’t had to pick her up yet (may need to for meds) so I don’t know if she’ll react to that and I won’t be deliberately poking her or pressing on anything as there’s no need for me to cause extra distress trying to hold figure it out when we’re seeing the vets this morning who’ll actually know what they’re doing!

Pleased to see her looking lively but still concerned of course. Thanks for the support.
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Just cherish every day with her as the blessing that it is.

The current long, hot summer is additionally very hard on the frail and old, not just humans but also pets with existing health issues. :(
 
This is true, although we did cave and get a portable air con which has helped with that this year.

Just finished with the vets. They said it’s likely a mixture of mild bloat and fluid increase to do with her heart. We’re not going to drain the meds as it would be a major procedure and would come back anyway.

We have extra pain relief (paracetamol, to add to the gaba) and more motility meds. Although metacam is not ideal for a pig with kidney risk, as this is palliative care she did say if the other pain meds aren’t enough we could consider it.

They said kidney issues are a real possibility but we won’t be putting her through blood tests to confirm something that’s not treatable. Her body condition is slimmer and bonier at the top and fuller at the bottom. I know this can be age related but the vet said she often sees this body condition in pigs with kidney issues too. She was given some fluids to help with hydration.

Hydration, nutrition and pain relief are the targets now, to maintain a quality of life. If this turns out to not be a blip and is her new normal, than we would have to discuss quality of life, but for now we’re taking her home and seeing how she gets on.

She found it hard to feel the cysts clearly due to the fluid, but felt that if they were significantly larger she’d have felt them. Again there’s not much we can do about the cysts other than pain relief.

I also spotted a new type of critical care at the vets with papaya flavour so might try that too.
 
LucyP said:
This is true, although we did cave and get a portable air con which has helped with that this year.

Just finished with the vets. They said it’s likely a mixture of mild bloat and fluid increase to do with her heart. We’re not going to drain the meds as it would be a major procedure and would come back anyway.

We have extra pain relief (paracetamol, to add to the gaba) and more motility meds. Although metacam is not ideal for a pig with kidney risk, as this is palliative care she did say if the other pain meds aren’t enough we could consider it.

They said kidney issues are a real possibility but we won’t be putting her through blood tests to confirm something that’s not treatable. Her body condition is slimmer and bonier at the top and fuller at the bottom. I know this can be age related but the vet said she often sees this body condition in pigs with kidney issues too. She was given some fluids to help with hydration.

Hydration, nutrition and pain relief are the targets now, to maintain a quality of life. If this turns out to not be a blip and is her new normal, than we would have to discuss quality of life, but for now we’re taking her home and seeing how she gets on.

She found it hard to feel the cysts clearly due to the fluid, but felt that if they were significantly larger she’d have felt them. Again there’s not much we can do about the cysts other than pain relief.

I also spotted a new type of critical care at the vets with papaya flavour so might try that too.
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Very sorry that the news isn't great but there is often a rat-tail of issues building up in older piggies. :(
Concentrate on quality of life, enrichment and treasuring the time left with her to make some more precious memory and have a smile with her each day.

Papaya flavour has been quite a hit with US piggies but so far it has not been available the in UK. I hope that as banana is going down well, papaya flavour will do so, too!
 
To be honest, I was expecting it to not be great, as she has already outlasted all the predictions on her heart prognosis, and that keeps advancing of course, and it's quite possible the meds have caught up with other parts of her body. But at the same time, without these meds, the vet said she would never have made it this far, so we had to make a choice. And at 6 I guess we are at the age where kidney and other things could happen anyway. So I don't think we can feel too hard done by. I am so pleased with the time she's had so far, and long may it continue, but time in itself is only a positive if those are good days for her, and I keep that firmly in mind. We'll see if she perks up a bit from this episode and take it from there. She was actually quite perky at the vets, her little head was very carefully following the vets gesticulating hands because I think she hoped there'd be a treat in one of them! She was a bit hit with the students too. They all had a listen to her heart which is very sad, but I suppose it was good learning for them about what an abnormal heart sounds like. They also got to learn about kidneys and heart issues in piggies in some detail. (They have all vet students doing a rotation with the exotic team and the aim is to make sure that when most of them become general vets, they will have some knowledge to take away with them).

Poor old Dottie. But right now she is at home, munching on hay, back in her bigger house today (7 x 2 C&C) as it's cool enough in there for her to mooch around a little bit more, and hopefully that will help a tiny bit with the bloat too. Not that she ventures far these days but she will have a little wander. And she has official permission to have any food she likes as long as it doesn't upset her tummy. I'll see if she likes the papaya!

Many thanks for your ongoing support.
 
Holding you and Dottie in my heart. ♥️
Looking after a piggy at this stage of life is emotionally draining so look after yourself as well.

When I’ve been in this position I’ve focussed on making every day a happy day, ensuring my piggy was pain free and comfortable and had their favourite foods .
I took lots of photos and made lots of good memories.
 
I don’t know if it was the hydration they gave her at the vets, or the extra pain meds, or just timing, but she’s so much brighter this afternoon and has been munching on various things, looking alert and interested. She enjoyed some papaya syringe feed from inside her cage and some more water. Currently tucking into some Timothy hay. I know it doesn’t change her prognosis, but just to see her more like herself is everything.
 
Dottie's not looking quite so good today I'm afraid. We've now upped the frusol under vet advice and will give that time to see if it helps, but if it doesn't, or if she gets worse in the meantime, I think we may have to make the dreaded call about PTS. She's still enthusiastic for some foods, but not as much as usual. We are not having to force any food yet. I'd say her general demeanour is subdued rather than showing distress, but we know they can hide things, so unless there's a dramatic improvement soon I think we may have to do this. She is not herself. She hasn't quite crossed over into poor enough quality of life for it to be obvious I don't think, and it's hard, because she has had blips before and come through them, so there is a chance we would be going too soon, but I would rather that than see her suffer. That said we do have her registered with a more local out of hours vet and could get her an emergency PTS quickly if she deteriorated at night, so we are a bit torn about watching and waiting. If we do have to choose PTS, I also wondered about booking one of the vet companies that does home visits, but I'd want it to be done properly and I trust our vets, even though they are a 30 minute taxi ride away. I feel a bit strange about going with an unknown one. But I also prefer the idea of not making her travel anywhere and sitting in noisy waiting rooms etc. Decisions... none of them easy. It's all very sad but it does feel it might be coming. She's such am absolute sweetheart, the idea of PTS feels awful but never do we want her to suffer. She licked my hand today when she wanted a treat.

Thanks for reading and I will keep you updated.
 
I'm sorry Dottie is not so well.I hope she has some more good days.you are doing all you can.it shows how loved she is.
Take each day as it comes hugs to you.xx
 
LucyP said:
Dottie's not looking quite so good today I'm afraid. We've now upped the frusol under vet advice and will give that time to see if it helps, but if it doesn't, or if she gets worse in the meantime, I think we may have to make the dreaded call about PTS. She's still enthusiastic for some foods, but not as much as usual. We are not having to force any food yet. I'd say her general demeanour is subdued rather than showing distress, but we know they can hide things, so unless there's a dramatic improvement soon I think we may have to do this. She is not herself. She hasn't quite crossed over into poor enough quality of life for it to be obvious I don't think, and it's hard, because she has had blips before and come through them, so there is a chance we would be going too soon, but I would rather that than see her suffer. That said we do have her registered with a more local out of hours vet and could get her an emergency PTS quickly if she deteriorated at night, so we are a bit torn about watching and waiting. If we do have to choose PTS, I also wondered about booking one of the vet companies that does home visits, but I'd want it to be done properly and I trust our vets, even though they are a 30 minute taxi ride away. I feel a bit strange about going with an unknown one. But I also prefer the idea of not making her travel anywhere and sitting in noisy waiting rooms etc. Decisions... none of them easy. It's all very sad but it does feel it might be coming. She's such am absolute sweetheart, the idea of PTS feels awful but never do we want her to suffer. She licked my hand today when she wanted a treat.

Thanks for reading and I will keep you updated.
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Having to contemplate the end is always hard. Vets are much more open these days so you may want to have a chat with the clinic as to what is possible for the most peaceful send off.

I would recommend to have this discussion ahead so you can think things through and know your mind whenever it becomes necessary. It can take some of the stress of having to make last minute decisions off you and ease the usual guilt loop for you when you know for sure you really have done the very best under the circumstances.

Be proud and treasure the time. Even if it is cooler inside your piggy room, this summer is still very hard on all the older and frailer of any species. :(
 
Thank you. The massive frusol rescue dose seems to have made a big difference, for now at least. She is eating better, (still picky but eating much more, showing much more enthusiasm and being quite grabby for certain leaves, she is also more into hay again). She is weeing lots, producing lots of poos and more normal sized poos, mostly on the moist side and not dried poos. Her weight has dropped since yesterday but this is to be expected as the frusol pulls out the liquid, one of the few times a loss in weight is a good thing. She looks a lot more comfortable. Of course it may change again and we remain on standby to have 'that' conversation, but she looks very bright today and is breathing easier.
 
Sad update on Dottie: she's had some better days since the increased frusol but I fear the fluid is coming back as she is showing very picky and reduced eating, slowing down and she is generally more subdued. Spoke to one of the vets on Saturday who said we could try a higher rescue dose again but if this keeps happening we really have reached our limits of what can be done. She does not seem to be in any distress and she's not showing the red flag emergency signs of gasping, or panting, or laying on her side or struggling to get comfy or having blue lips. But I don't want her to get to that stage. She is quiet and shows initial interest in food and then turns away. Also, she has always taken her meds in her house very happily (apart from gabapentin) with a bit of diluted apple juice, but lately she's been fighting that.

Her weight is stable at 990g (she has always been little) but that doesn't match her food intake in my view, I think the weight is partly fluid and she has lost body condition.

This is sadly an incurable heart disease and I fear we may have crossed into more bad days than good, or close to that.

So I've just emailed the vets to see about making an appointment to put her to sleep. Absolutely heartbroken, and every time she seems momentarily perkier, eating something or wandering around, I question it, but I know in my heart of hearts we are just managing symptoms and if I leave it too late and she has a sudden collapse I would feel awful. Most of our pigs have died very suddenly so this is new to me. There's something about booking in that appointment that feels so awful when we spend so much time trying to keep them alive.

If I was confident her condition was one that meant she could die peacefully in her sleep, I would prefer to keep her at home. But I can't bear the idea of her body filling up with fluid and her struggling. Since we know her prognosis it feels like we should use that information, if that makes sense.

Devastated doesn't begin to cover it, and this will be the end of our piggy journey. But I think it's probably right. It is so hard to know 100% but I can't see her regaining more quality of life now, and we need to do what's right for her even though we are not ready. Could you ever be ready though, so I can't keep waiting on that basis.

Anyway thank you for listening to my stream of consciousness.
 
BIG HUGS

It is always so much more difficult when we have to make the ultimate decision ourselves, on our own judgement and responsibility, and it is not taken out of our hands by circumstances. But your heart is very much in the right place and you are listening to it. You are putting Dottie's welfare before your own wishes, as it should be.

It is not easy to bear the full brunt of your owner's burden with all the attendant extra heartache, soul-searching and feelings of guilt but Dottie is blessed to have found somebody who has fought her corner as hard as they could but who has then also the courage to accept when the battle is lost and to focus on making her journey to the Bridge as gentle, peaceful and free of any discomfort as possible instead.

My heart goes out to you. But be proud of yourself amidst all the hurt. You are not failing Dottie in any way.
💚 💚 💚 💚 💚
 
I’m so sorry. You’ve done the right thing. Sending you hugs. ❤️

Such a hard thing to do. But done with love.
 
Huge thanks for your support.

I couldn't get through on the phone so emailed them this morning and asked if they had any space today, on the off chance they might (they are open late and can usually fit in emergencies) but haven't heard yet and they may not treat this an emergency. I should probably follow this up, but since then, of course she's shown great enthusiasm for some basil, strawberry and some hay, looking bright and responsive. Every time she perks up it makes me wonder. But I think these are temporary moments of enthusiasm and otherwise she is quite sleepy and subdued. So now I don't know whether to push hard for today or make an appointment tomorrow or Thurs. Tomorrow is a difficult day work wise but if it needs to be done, of course I will make it work. Thursday might be better but if she deteriorates between now and then I'd be so upset. I guess I'll see what the vets come back with and call them if I don't hear.

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So sorry that you have had to make this decision.
It is heartbreaking even when we know it’s the right thing to do.
Hope you can get to see the vet soon.
Holding you in my heart ♥️
 
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