Elderly Piggie,rigid seizures and skin complaints

[Jenny-Lou]

Hi everyone! I'm to posting so I hope I'm doing this right!
I have a 7 year old piggie who I suspected had mites as her skin was scaly, and she was itching. We have been given a course of invermectin by the vet which she had about 4 days ago but she seems much the same in terms of skin condition. I really hate to think of her in discomfort so I'm wondering if there's anything else I can try for her?
She has also had about 3 of 4 fits, one of which happened in the vets - the vet came running through from the treatment room with little Demi frozen on her back to ask if this is what the others had been like. I said yes, and she seemed to think it was neurological rather than connected her skin because of how still and rigid she was. She does appear fine when she comes round and asks for treats but it's very scary! Does it sound like it could be caused by her itching? Or could these be symptoms of something else? I really want her twilight years to be the best and I feel like I'm failing her

 

[GPTV]

Welcome to the forum, yes you've done your first post correctly

Sorry to hear about your guinea pig
There is a possibility that it could be the mites causing the seizures.
Mange mites that are invisible to the naked eye burrow into the skin & when treated with Ivermectin it often causes the guinea to get worse before it gets better I'm afraid
Apparently the mites, move around more & then die off under the skin making it more itchy.

You will probably need at least 3 treatments of Ivermectin approx. 7 days apart to kill of any hatching juveniles that are remaining. Was it by injection or a spot on treatment used?
In the UK Xeno450 is a very effective spot on treatment for mites, a lot of the 'off the shelf' treatments aren't strong enough to be of much use though.

Did the vet give you any painkiller (loxicom/metacam) for your little lady?
This would help reduce the seizures as they're often caused by pain. It's also an anti inflammatory so would help settle the skin.
Ask for the stronger dog version of Loxicom, try to give her in 2 doses spread evenly throughout the day (eg, 8am & 8pm) as guineas have a high metabolism & one dose daily wears off too quickly.

Unfortunately she sounds quite advanced with her mites & so it will probably take a couple of weeks to get her back on track & her skin healing/hair growing back.
If it's a really bad case of mites sometimes a sock or similar over their torso can stop the guinea from biting & scratching themselves, although I'd be cautious of this as putting it on her originally would probably cause pain or stress (&possibly more seizures which would defeat the object).

If she scratches herself leaving open wounds an antiseptic cream like F10 barrier/germicidal cream in a very thin smearing would help her skin heal, but get advice from your vet on how long before you can put anything else on her after the Ivermectin if it was a spot on treatment.

If she's in with any friends they will also need an Ivermectin treatment to be on the safe side.

Does Demi have an infestation in her ears? Neurological type problems are often connected with ear infections/issues.

Good luck with your little lady let us know how you get on.

Healing vibes being sent your way for a full & speedy recovery
Xx

 

[Wiebke]

Hi!

A course of ivermectin usually consisits of 3 rounds of ivermectin at the product specific interval (usually between 7-14 days depending on the strength). Please make sure that you conduct the full course but discuss with your vet whether it may better to give them via injection or orally in view of her seizures.

Rigid seizures are not at all typical for mange mites (trixacarus caviae, who burrow their eggs in the skin) and not known in the case of hay mites (chirodiscoides caviae, who fix their egg cases to hairs, typically around the bum end and who live off debris on the hairs and skin).
Did your vet say which type of mite they are exactly treating for and whether they have checked whether your piggy could be suffering from a fungal skin infection (possibly ringworm) instead?
Please also be aware that the seizures can be connected to an underlying issue and that any parasites are secondary; they are opportunists that can make a comeback or hit hard whenever the immune system in the elderly gives way.

I agree with @GPTV that it may be worth checking the ears but the neurological issue may be located elsewhere. It is an area that is very difficult to investigate unfortunately. Has your vet checked whether the seizures could be caused by pain?

New piggy problems: URI - ringworm - skin parasites

 

[Jenny-Lou]

Welcome to the forum, yes you've done your first post correctly

Sorry to hear about your guinea pig
There is a possibility that it could be the mites causing the seizures.
Mange mites that are invisible to the naked eye burrow into the skin & when treated with Ivermectin it often causes the guinea to get worse before it gets better I'm afraid
Apparently the mites, move around more & then die off under the skin making it more itchy.

You will probably need at least 3 treatments of Ivermectin approx. 7 days apart to kill of any hatching juveniles that are remaining. Was it by injection or a spot on treatment used?
In the UK Xeno450 is a very effective spot on treatment for mites, a lot of the 'off the shelf' treatments aren't strong enough to be of much use though.

Did the vet give you any painkiller (loxicom/metacam) for your little lady?
This would help reduce the seizures as they're often caused by pain. It's also an anti inflammatory so would help settle the skin.
Ask for the stronger dog version of Loxicom, try to give her in 2 doses spread evenly throughout the day (eg, 8am & 8pm) as guineas have a high metabolism & one dose daily wears off too quickly.

Unfortunately she sounds quite advanced with her mites & so it will probably take a couple of weeks to get her back on track & her skin healing/hair growing back.
If it's a really bad case of mites sometimes a sock or similar over their torso can stop the guinea from biting & scratching themselves, although I'd be cautious of this as putting it on her originally would probably cause pain or stress (&possibly more seizures which would defeat the object).

If she scratches herself leaving open wounds an antiseptic cream like F10 barrier/germicidal cream in a very thin smearing would help her skin heal, but get advice from your vet on how long before you can put anything else on her after the Ivermectin if it was a spot on treatment.

If she's in with any friends they will also need an Ivermectin treatment to be on the safe side.

Does Demi have an infestation in her ears? Neurological type problems are often connected with ear infections/issues.

Good luck with your little lady let us know how you get on.

Healing vibes being sent your way for a full & speedy recovery
Xx

Thank you so much for your reply. She does have some scaling on her ears yes, so that could be causing the seizures? We didn't get any painkillers so I will ask on Monday (in. The meantime I do have a dog who takes loxicom for arthritis so maybe I could pinch a bit?)
Fortunately she has no open wounds and not a lot of hairloss but she has a lot of dandruff and wheree her rosette is and on her ears I can see the dry flakiness that is causing her so much discomfort.
I'm afraid I didn't realise that the over the counter drops would not be strong enough so probably it was getting worse while I thought I was helping.
I was only given one treatment (4 pipettes) of xeno 500 from the vet. It was devilishly expensive so if she needs some more I will order her some off amazon as it seems they have the same type at £20 for 9 pipettes.
Thank you again for helping us!

 

[Jenny-Lou]

Hi!

A course of ivermectin usually consisits of 3 rounds of ivermectin at the product specific interval (usually between 7-14 days depending on the strength). Please make sure that you conduct the full course but discuss with your vet whether it may better to give them via injection or orally in view of her seizures.

Rigid seizures are not at all typical for mange mites (trixacarus caviae, who burrow their eggs in the skin) and not known in the case of hay mites (chirodiscoides caviae, who fix their egg cases to hairs, typically around the bum end and who live off debris on the hairs and skin).
Did your vet say which type of mite they are exactly treating for and whether they have checked whether your piggy could be suffering from a fungal skin infection (possibly ringworm) instead?
Please also be aware that the seizures can be connected to an underlying issue and that any parasites are secondary; they are opportunists that can make a comeback or hit hard whenever the immune system in the elderly gives way.

I agree with @GPTV that it may be worth checking the ears but the neurological issue may be located elsewhere. It is an area that is very difficult to investigate unfortunately. Has your vet checked whether the seizures could be caused by pain?

New piggy problems: URI - ringworm - skin parasites

Hi, thank you so much for your response. The vet prescribed her xeno 500 in pipettes to apply as a spot on, however, she only gave us one treatment (4 pipettes which as per her weight was correct for one treatment) I wasn't aware she would need more but can purchase the same brand from amazon to make sure we are ready.
The vet couldn't actually find any mites on her - I don't know which type she suspected but she told me a lot of the over the counter medicines didn't have enough active ingredient in them and thought the invermectin would help - unfortunately I had wasted a few weeks trying spot ons from the pet shop in which time she was likely getting worse
She hasn't been checked for ring worm I don't think - the vet looked in her ears and examined her coat but that was all. Should I take her back to ask about this ASAP or try second round of invermectin and see if there's any improvement?
She's still eating and drinking fine, and asking for treats, she just doesn't like being handled which isn't like her as she would usually climb onto my hands to come out and play, and of course the fits really worry me every time.
We are treating our other piggies as well but thankfully they don't have any scaliness or irritation. Just poor Demi, so it makes sense that perhaps her immune system being compromised is affecting her.

 

[GPTV]

Thank you so much for your reply. She does have some scaling on her ears yes, so that could be causing the seizures? We didn't get any painkillers so I will ask on Monday (in. The meantime I do have a dog who takes loxicom for arthritis so maybe I could pinch a bit?)
Fortunately she has no open wounds and not a lot of hairloss but she has a lot of dandruff and wheree her rosette is and on her ears I can see the dry flakiness that is causing her so much discomfort.
I'm afraid I didn't realise that the over the counter drops would not be strong enough so probably it was getting worse while I thought I was helping.
I was only given one treatment (4 pipettes) of xeno 500 from the vet. It was devilishly expensive so if she needs some more I will order her some off amazon as it seems they have the same type at £20 for 9 pipettes.
Thank you again for helping us!

Good luck at the vets

Just double checking the xeno you have... Is it Xeno450 or Xeno50? The 50 is a lot weaker than the 450 are you having to put multiple of tubes on at each treatment? The strength is usually prescribed with the guineas weight the 450 version is usually for guineas over 1kg I think? (it's also cheaper in comparison to the 50... Animed are better value than the vets for this).
As Wiebke suggested it could also be a fungal issue, dandruff can be an indication of the start of a fungal problem. Please get your vet to check for this also (there's a possibility she could be unlucky & have both-it's not unusual as both conditions are opportunistic).
Guinea Lynx :: Mange Mites
Guinea Lynx :: Fungus
Here's some info from guinealynx that you may find useful too.
Read the link on ringworm that Wiebke has posted too, as it's full of useful info, written with lots of tried & tested experience

If it does turn out to be both conditions an Ivermectin injection would probably be preferable as then a fungal wash could be used. Or an oral fungal treatment such as Itrafungal (often cheaper at petdrugsonline with vets prescription charge) & carry on with the xeno drops.
If ones oral & the other topical then it's less likely to cause problems ref skin & effectiveness.

Hope Demi gets on OK. Healing vibes xx

 

[Wiebke]

With xeno you have to wait a full 2 weeks before you can apply more ivermectin because overdosing can be dangerous.

Unfortunately, without pictures we cannot comment on the nature of the problem and can only mention avenues that also may need to be taken into account. DIY home treatment sadly very often can make a problem worse instead of better.

 

[Jenny-Lou]

Good luck at the vets

Just double checking the xeno you have... Is it Xeno450 or Xeno50? The 50 is a lot weaker than the 450 are you having to put multiple of tubes on at each treatment? The strength is usually prescribed with the guineas weight the 450 version is usually for guineas over 1kg I think? (it's also cheaper in comparison to the 50... Animed are better value than the vets for this).
As Wiebke suggested it could also be a fungal issue, dandruff can be an indication of the start of a fungal problem. Please get your vet to check for this also (there's a possibility she could be unlucky & have both-it's not unusual as both conditions are opportunistic).
Guinea Lynx :: Mange Mites
Guinea Lynx :: Fungus
Here's some info from guinealynx that you may find useful too.
Read the link on ringworm that Wiebke has posted too, as it's full of useful info, written with lots of tried & tested experience

If it does turn out to be both conditions an Ivermectin injection would probably be preferable as then a fungal wash could be used. Or an oral fungal treatment such as Itrafungal (often cheaper at petdrugsonline with vets prescription charge) & carry on with the xeno drops.
If ones oral & the other topical then it's less likely to cause problems ref skin & effectiveness.

Hope Demi gets on OK. Healing vibes xx

Thank you again!
It's xeno 50 (my apologies!) Demi weighs about 900g so we used 4 pipettes.
I have had a look at the ring worm thread and also the fungal and mange mite threads and I'm thinking it might be fungal (or both) because today I can definitely see thinning of the fur around one of her eyes. I've put a pic in here but I have called the vet and am awaiting a call back. Also, she still posed for the camera and asked for treats afterwards so that made me happy in the way that only beloved piggies can!

 

[Jenny-Lou]

With xeno you have to wait a full 2 weeks before you can apply more ivermectin because overdosing can be dangerous.

Unfortunately, without pictures we cannot comment on the nature of the problem and can only mention avenues that also may need to be taken into account. DIY home treatment sadly very often can make a problem worse instead of better.

Thank you. I've called the vet again and am awaiting a call back because, having read the links you both sent, I think there may be a fungal infection as well. I have attached some pics in a reply for GPTV just a moment ago.
She seems a little perkier today so I'm hoping that the invermectin has helped with some of her discomfort. I will take precautions with handling and cleaning until I get an appointment with the vet. Thank you so very much for your help!

 

[GPTV]

Awww pretty piggy
It does look like a fungal patch starting by her eye, definitely get the vet to check for fungal/ringworm.
If it is ask the vet to prescribe Itrafungol & you can buy it cheaper online even if the vet charges £10-£15 to write it out
The cheapest I found back along was here
Itrafungol Oral Solution - Shop Now and Save at Pet Drugs Online
My vet wanted to charge nearly £100 for it!
Hope you both got on OK at the vets? xx

 

[Jenny-Lou]

Thank you so much - again!
The vet asked me to send some photos of Demi's eye and they will call me tomorrow to either to come collect a prescription or to bring her back in - and I didn't have to pay the phone consultation fee as they saw my piggie recently and didn't pick it up (likely due to her having a fit in the middle of her exam, poor baby) so will just pay for the script. Fingers crossed she will be feeling better soon I can't thank you enough for your help. Xx

 

[Merab]

Welcome to the forum.
All I can add is support for you and Demi

 

[Jenny-Lou]

Thank you so much - again!
The vet asked me to send some photos of Demi's eye and they will call me tomorrow to either to come collect a prescription or to bring her back in - and I didn't have to pay the phone consultation fee as they saw my piggie recently and didn't pick it up (likely due to her having a fit in the middle of her exam, poor baby) so will just pay for the script. Fingers crossed she will be feeling better soon I can't thank you enough for your help. Xx

Oh, and just to add, I'm just keeping an eye on her seizures. She had one this afternoon and her back legs seemed limp for a little while afterwards which was worrying but she was fine again not long after. I agreed its best as long as they don't become much closer together, or leave her in distress to wait and see how she goes as the vet said it is rare for piggies to have true neurological issues but they can be caused by all sorts of things and the testing can be more harmful than the fits. I did wonder if maybe my epilepsy had triggered hers...! I know it sounds ridiculous but either way so far she doesn't seem to be in distress afterwards and the only thing I want is for her to be as comfortable and stress free as possible at her age.

 

[Jenny-Lou]

Welcome to the forum.
All I can add is support for you and Demi

Many thanks it's lovely to be among piggie friends