Guinea pig intro not going well...?

[Fig]

Recently we got a new piggie (a few months old) as a friend for our older one (about 1.5 years old). They are both males. We quaranteed him for ~2 weeks, then tried to introduce him today.

We don't have a separate pen to introduce him so we tried to use the older one's cage and make it as neutral as possible, washing everything and taking out his stuff.

At first it went okay, they were just eating lettuce and hay that we left. When they finished the lettuce they started to chase and smell each other which is fine. The older one was making a very loud, low purring sound (I'm not too sure what it means, does somebody know?) while the younger one was making squeeking noises.

A couple times the older one trapped the younger one inside pigloo hidees (we left those in, but in hindsight it probably wasn't a good idea) and the younger one was freaking out a bit and eager to escape every time he did that.

Eventually it started getting more aggressive, the older one was mounting the younger but the younger was also trying to mount the older. At a point the mounting turned into hopping on eachothers side and biting at eachothers face. It was a ball of fur. It looked and sounded like they were fighting, I'm not so sure what exactly guinea pig fighting looks like but i got worried and separated them. No blood or fur pulled from what I can tell.

Anybody have any thoughts on what to do now? if what happened was normal?

 

[Siikibam]

If they were a ball of flying fur then unfortunately their bond is broken and they will need to live separately as neighbours.

Mounting in itself is normal dominance behaviour and can seem quite bad from our point of view. The fact the younger pig was squeaking was also a good sign. But the fur ball was the end of that.

As you noticed, putting hides in the bonding area is not recommended. All that should be in there is hay and veg. And even when they are bonded, all hides need to have two exits so no pig can become trapped.

I’m sorry things didn’t work out. Unfortunately it’s a bit of a gamble as to whether it would, if you get a piggy in spec so to speak.

They will be okay living as neighbours. They can still get the interaction they need. Just make sure they each have a big enough cage - 120x60cm or a 2x3 c&c (although 2x4 is preferable). Hope they’ve calmed down now. Bonding can be stressful for us humans as well!

In the guide below is a short view of a fur ball. Have a look at it and see if that’s how your boys behaved. Also have a read of the dominance levels guide linked below and see where they sat. I am saying permanent separation on the basis you said it was a fur ball. Sometimes you don’t have to wait for blood to be drawn to make the decision.

Look at the video under ‘Acceptance has not happened’. It’s towards the very end of the video and only a few seconds.
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

 

[Fig]

If they were a ball of flying fur then unfortunately their bond is broken and they will need to live separately as neighbours.

Mounting in itself is normal dominance behaviour and can seem quite bad from our point of view. The fact the younger pig was squeaking was also a good sign. But the fur ball was the end of that.

As you noticed, putting hides in the bonding area is not recommended. All that should be in there is hay and veg. And even when they are bonded, all hides need to have two exits so no pig can become trapped.

I’m sorry things didn’t work out. Unfortunately it’s a bit of a gamble as to whether it would, if you get a piggy in spec so to speak.

They will be okay living as neighbours. They can still get the interaction they need. Just make sure they each have a big enough cage - 120x60cm or a 2x3 c&c (although 2x4 is preferable). Hope they’ve calmed down now. Bonding can be stressful for us humans as well!

In the guide below is a short view of a fur ball. Have a look at it and see if that’s how your boys behaved. Also have a read of the dominance levels guide linked below and see where they sat. I am saying permanent separation on the basis you said it was a fur ball. Sometimes you don’t have to wait for blood to be drawn to make the decision.

Look at the video under ‘Acceptance has not happened’. It’s towards the very end of the video and only a few seconds.
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

Thank you for the advice. I found a video clip that looks a bit closer to what our piggies were doing. It is the very first clip in the video:

Almost the same except they were trying to get on top of each other. Not so much flying around like the more aggressive fights. Do you think it's worth trying to introduce them again or not?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Mounting is a normal behaviour, the piggy who is going to be submissive should accept it. One needs to be dominant and one submissive but if they both try to be dominant, then it won’t work.
How old is the younger piggy? Once he becomes a teenager, then he is going to become hormonal and you are more likely to see him trying to mount

Trying to bite each other and the fact you mention a ball of fur is not a good sign.

The low purring sound is called rumblestrutting which is a normal dominance behaviour and the way boars measure up to each other

If you now don’t think it was an actual fight, then you could try again, however, you should not introduce them in the territory of another piggy. That will be a surefire way to cause a problem.
You need to do the bonding where neither of them see as their normal territory - in a kitchen or bathroom floor anywhere but never in the territory of another piggy.

Don’t put any hides in the bonding pen and definitely don’t use any hides with only one door at all - again, that is the way fights will occur if one piggy feels cornered inside. If they do bond, then the pigloos will need to be replaced, all hides for boar pairs must have two doors so there is always a way out.

How big is the cage that you tried to bond them in?
How big is the cage that you plan, provided it is successful, on keeping them in?

 

[Fig]

Mounting is a normal behaviour, the piggy who is going to be submissive should accept it. One needs to be dominant and one submissive but if they both try to be dominant, then it won’t work.
How old is the younger piggy? Once he becomes a teenager, then he is going to become hormonal and you are more likely to see him trying to mount

Trying to bite each other and the fact you mention a ball of fur is not a good sign.

The low purring sound is called rumblestrutting which is a normal dominance behaviour and the way boars measure up to each other

If you now don’t think it was an actual fight, then you could try again, however, you should not introduce them in the territory of another piggy. That will be a surefire way to cause a problem.
You need to do the bonding where neither of them see as their normal territory - in a kitchen or bathroom floor anywhere but never in the territory of another piggy.

Don’t put any hides in the bonding pen and definitely don’t use any hides with only one door at all - again, that is the way fights will occur if one piggy feels cornered inside. If they do bond, then the pigloos will need to be replaced, all hides for boar pairs must have two doors so there is always a way out.

How big is the cage that you tried to bond them in?
How big is the cage that you plan, provided it is successful, on keeping them in?

Good news! We tried to introduce them again today in a much bigger space by sectioning off parts of a room with boards and spare grids. It is fortunately going a lot better than yesterday. The elder is doing the low purring/rumble strutting and the younger still tries to mount him, but other than that they are doing well. About 3 hours in they are eating together side by side, they took a nap together with the younger sleeper on the elder, and the little one is just following him too instead of chasing.

The cage is 24'' x 47'', we're planning to buy another though that can be attached to the current one to expand it.

At what point can I end the introduction and put them together?

 

[Piggies&buns]

If they have slept and are still happy after a nap, then they can go to the cage together.

You must be very careful though because the cage you have is not big enough for two boars - they need 180x60cm which is 24 inches by 70 inches - when can you get the new cage, as they need it asap?
If they dont have enough room (particularly with the youngest about to become a teenager) and start to feel too hemmed in the cage you have, then it could cause problems for their bond before it’s properly started.

Can you not join the two cages you already have together to make it bigger ie the cage your older boar lived in and the cage your younger boar was quarantined in? How big is the quarantine cage? Or use the grids you have sectioned the room off with to make a pen and leave the cage door open so they can come and go between the cage and the pen?

 

[Siikibam]

That cage is unfortunately just below the recommended size for a single or pair of sows. I would try and extend it as soon as possible. Either to 150x60 or better yet to 180x60cm. Could you use the spare grids to make an area they have access to 24/7? Be aware that expanding the cage can be a territory change for boars and may lead to dominance behaviour as well. Hence why it’s always best to get them into the correct size from the start.

As they’ve had a nap and eaten you could possibly move them to the cage. I would give it a couple more hours though, just to be sure. There’s no harm in leaving them in the bonding area for an extended period, even overnight.

Make sure that there are no one exit hides in their cage and make sure there is two of everything - hay piles, bottles, hides.

I’m glad they went back together okay

 

[Fig]

Thank you, I'm very relieved too The quarantine cage is pretty small (unfortunately it's one of those pet store ones we bought before doing more research) but I can try to connect them together for now. I will leave them in the bonding area for the rest of the day. Thank you both for the advice!

 

[Piggies&buns]

Try to get the cage as close to 180x60cm / 24 x 70 inches (or a 5x2 c&c cage which measures 180x77cm) as you can before you move them into it. It is so important for boars to have a lot of room particularly as you have an almost teenager, one who is just out of his teens and a brand new bond. Lack of space can really cause problems for boars.

As Siikibam has mentioned, if you do buy them a new cage after they have lived in whatever you can make them for them now, then that will constitute a change of territory and can set off a new round of dominance. Whenever boars change environment it’s always best to use the soiled bedding from their original home in their new home so that their new home still smells of them.

A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Cage Size Guide

 

[weepweeps]

I left my two recently bonded piggies in the bonding pen overnight just to make sure they were ok with each other.