Hard Lump On Chin/jaw

[LydiaMinx]

Boris, my 4 year old boar, has literally just developed a hard lump on his chin/left jaw area. It's sitting directory under his jaw bone, but isn't causing trouble eating or seeming to bother him at all, even when touched.

I can't recall it being there a few days ago - it's pretty hard to miss.
He saw a cavy savy vet this morning who had a good look in his mouth and that looked all good. She also felt the lump and said it wasn't attached to his jaw, just very close to it.

She used a needle to aspirate the lump but only blood came out, so she says this is very unlikely to be a cyst or abscess. She's given him some Metacam to see if it reduces in size, if so, we may operate on it but she didn't want to do that if avoidable.

Do abscesses tend to have blood in them? It's very hard but moves slightly under the skin, she said it may soften up and pop but it's a waiting game.

On top of my other boar, Badger, having a dental this week with a possible elongated root, I could really do without an unknown lump

Anyone got any similar experiences?

Thanks again guys

 

[Freela]

Oh no, you're having a rough go of it right now, aren't you? When it rains, it pours!

I've had two pigs who developed lumps on the jawline. In both cases, they were abscesses. The first pig had very few symptoms except for occasionally pulling her lips back while eating as though food was stuck. The second pig had about a six-month history of uneven dental wear and molar spurs before the abscess puffed up, so I suspect it had been brewing for awhile.

In the case of a needle only drawing blood, I'm wondering if it could still be an abscess but the abscess capsule wasn't punctured by the needle or the pus was too thick to be drawn into the needle if she used a fine-gauge needle (guinea pigs lack an enzyme that makes pus more liquid, thus their pus is a lot thicker that what you would see in a lot of other animals.)

Given the fact that he is eating and maintaining weight, you may be able to watch and wait and see how it develops. If I were you, I would probably bathe the area with saline in the hopes that may draw any pus out to make it easier to identify. I would also take a whiff of the area periodically- abscesses have a very noticeably nasty odor once they have been punctured, so if it is an abscess and the needle did, in fact, puncture the capsule, you may be able to smell infection which might help the diagnosis.

Hopefully someone else will come along with more info on lumps that aren't abscesses. Unfortunately, all my pigs with facial lumps have had abscesses under there.

 

[LydiaMinx]

Oh no, you're having a rough go of it right now, aren't you? When it rains, it pours!

I've had two pigs who developed lumps on the jawline. In both cases, they were abscesses. The first pig had very few symptoms except for occasionally pulling her lips back while eating as though food was stuck. The second pig had about a six-month history of uneven dental wear and molar spurs before the abscess puffed up, so I suspect it had been brewing for awhile.

In the case of a needle only drawing blood, I'm wondering if it could still be an abscess but the abscess capsule wasn't punctured by the needle or the pus was too thick to be drawn into the needle if she used a fine-gauge needle (guinea pigs lack an enzyme that makes pus more liquid, thus their pus is a lot thicker that what you would see in a lot of other animals.)

Given the fact that he is eating and maintaining weight, you may be able to watch and wait and see how it develops. If I were you, I would probably bathe the area with saline in the hopes that may draw any pus out to make it easier to identify. I would also take a whiff of the area periodically- abscesses have a very noticeably nasty odor once they have been punctured, so if it is an abscess and the needle did, in fact, puncture the capsule, you may be able to smell infection which might help the diagnosis.

Hopefully someone else will come along with more info on lumps that aren't abscesses. Unfortunately, all my pigs with facial lumps have had abscesses under there.

It was a fine gauge needle, and not attached to a syringe, I'm not sure if that's common practice or not? I did think because it felt so firm, if it were pus, it would be thick.

I have some Baytril here for Badger after his dental that I'm not giving him, should I try this on Boris and see how it goes?

 

[Freela]

It was a fine gauge needle, and not attached to a syringe, I'm not sure if that's common practice or not? I did think because it felt so firm, if it were pus, it would be thick.

I have some Baytril here for Badger after his dental that I'm not giving him, should I try this on Boris and see how it goes?

It's really unlikely to do much good and can cause stomach upset. Baytril isn't the best antibiotic for abscesses and tends not to be effective on them, and because of the thickness of the pus, guinea pig abscesses are really unlikely to clear up with antibiotics alone. The general treatment is to pen and lance and drain them, keeping them open to continue cleaning and flushing to let them heal from the inside out, coupled with a strong antibiotic (my vet uses chloramphenicol for deep abscesses but I understand that azithromycin is one of the better abscess drugs.) It's also possible and requires a lot less aftercare to remove the entire abscess capsule, but it really depends on location, as there needs to be enough give in the skin to cover and suture the wound. For my pigs, at least, there was not enough stretch/give in the facial skin to do a repair after the entire abscess was removed, though one of my pigs had a big abscessed cyst removed from her back this way and it was a much easier process for all of us!

 

[Abi_nurse]

Very unusual. I would send off the fluid to see what it is. It could be an abscess or it could be an infected tumour? Without further analysis there is no telling what exactly it is. It may well go down with just the anti inflammatories.

Hope he feels much better soon.

x

 

[LydiaMinx]

It's really unlikely to do much good and can cause stomach upset. Baytril isn't the best antibiotic for abscesses and tends not to be effective on them, and because of the thickness of the pus, guinea pig abscesses are really unlikely to clear up with antibiotics alone. The general treatment is to pen and lance and drain them, keeping them open to continue cleaning and flushing to let them heal from the inside out, coupled with a strong antibiotic (my vet uses chloramphenicol for deep abscesses but I understand that azithromycin is one of the better abscess drugs.) It's also possible and requires a lot less aftercare to remove the entire abscess capsule, but it really depends on location, as there needs to be enough give in the skin to cover and suture the wound. For my pigs, at least, there was not enough stretch/give in the facial skin to do a repair after the entire abscess was removed, though one of my pigs had a big abscessed cyst removed from her back this way and it was a much easier process for all of us!

I'll leave the baytril then! I may request an X-ray, rather then have her aspirate again? Unless she could aspirate it with a larger needle, if that wouldn't stress/hurt Boris so much. Do x-rays even show abscesses and tumours as different? Sorry for the inquisition!

Very unusual. I would send off the fluid to see what it is. It could be an abscess or it could be an infected tumour? Without further analysis there is no telling what exactly it is. It may well go down with just the anti inflammatories.

Hope he feels much better soon.

x

Thank you! As do I, one poorly pig is enough for me - would ideally like them both fit and healthy of course!

I'm going to give the Metacam a fair go, but will request a sample to be going on with if nothing changes. Although, it was literally just blood coming out - can this be used to determine what it is?

 

[Abi_nurse]

If it's just blood it's likely to be a heamatoma (literally means blood filled lump). This would be really unusual, and without looking under the microscope at the fluid you couldn't say for sure if it's pure blood, infection or fluid from a mass etc. I would give the metacam a go and see as it may well go down. And no, you can't tell from an X-ray the difference between an abscess, tumour or cyst but you can rule out bone infection and boney changes.

x

 

[Freela]

I'll leave the baytril then! I may request an X-ray, rather then have her aspirate again? Unless she could aspirate it with a larger needle, if that wouldn't stress/hurt Boris so much. Do x-rays even show abscesses and tumours as different? Sorry for the inquisition!



Thank you! As do I, one poorly pig is enough for me - would ideally like them both fit and healthy of course!

I'm going to give the Metacam a fair go, but will request a sample to be going on with if nothing changes. Although, it was literally just blood coming out - can this be used to determine what it is?

I don't think that soft tissue masses will be able to be identified on an x-ray (though you would be able to see any bony involvement and potentially tooth root issues.) If anything, soft masses will just look shadowy on the x-ray film. I would see how it does with the metacam. If there's still a lump, I would see about a more thorough biopsy than just a needle biopsy. And like I said, I would keep on inspecting the lump and doing the 'sniff test' to see if it shows any signs that seem more like infection.

 

[LydiaMinx]

If it's just blood it's likely to be a heamatoma (literally means blood filled lump). This would be really unusual, and without looking under the microscope at the fluid you couldn't say for sure if it's pure blood, infection or fluid from a mass etc. I would give the metacam a go and see as it may well go down. And no, you can't tell from an X-ray the difference between an abscess, tumour or cyst but you can rule out bone infection and boney changes.

x

Thank you for clarifying! I was recommended a week on the metacam for him to see if anything changes, I measured the lump yesterday so I can tell if it reduces of increases in size - it's about 3cm. The more I research on lumps though, the more I'm paranoid it's cancer

I don't think that soft tissue masses will be able to be identified on an x-ray (though you would be able to see any bony involvement and potentially tooth root issues.) If anything, soft masses will just look shadowy on the x-ray film. I would see how it does with the metacam. If there's still a lump, I would see about a more thorough biopsy than just a needle biopsy. And like I said, I would keep on inspecting the lump and doing the 'sniff test' to see if it shows any signs that seem more like infection.

May leave the X-ray then! Save my money for various biopsy's instead perhaps. I've been sniffing but can't tell much of a difference as I've got a stinking cold, thus far though nothing pongy enough to get my attention.

Just so so worried about this, waiting and seeing how thing's go makes me so uncomfortable. If it were possible, that lump would have been identified and dealt with the minute I found it!

 

[Freela]

Of course it's impossible to say for sure at this point, but a sudden lump along the jaw is FAR more likely to be an abscess or infection than a malignancy. I would try not to worry too much about that. Is he still eating okay?

 

[LydiaMinx]

Of course it's impossible to say for sure at this point, but a sudden lump along the jaw is FAR more likely to be an abscess or infection than a malignancy. I would try not to worry too much about that. Is he still eating okay?

He's still eating like a champ, he's out for floor time at the moment and running around as he normally does. I can't 100% say it was sudden, but I'm about 99% it was. He's been out for cuddles a fair amount in the last few months and I'm sure it would be something I'd have noticed, as it is visible from the side and front.

It is a very firm lump though, almost no pliability whatsoever. Can abscesses be that firm? I want to ask the vet to try with a bigger needle but I'm nervous for the damage that could do if not fluid/pus filled.

 

[Freela]

He's still eating like a champ, he's out for floor time at the moment and running around as he normally does. I can't 100% say it was sudden, but I'm about 99% it was. He's been out for cuddles a fair amount in the last few months and I'm sure it would be something I'd have noticed, as it is visible from the side and front.

It is a very firm lump though, almost no pliability whatsoever. Can abscesses be that firm? I want to ask the vet to try with a bigger needle but I'm nervous for the damage that could do if not fluid/pus filled.

Yes, abscesses can be very firm. They can be under a lot of pressure in there. I never tried to 'squish' them on my pigs that much, as I was afraid that it would cause them pain, but they were definitely very solid lumps, not squishy.

I would think that if the lump does not go down, the next step would be some kind of more thorough exploration, maybe under anesthesia. That should be more definitive in terms of what's in the lump. I'm still wondering if a simple needle poke either didn't penetrate the capsule or was not large enough to allow thick pus through, only because these sounds so similar to my pigs' abscesses.

 

[LydiaMinx]

Yes, abscesses can be very firm. They can be under a lot of pressure in there. I never tried to 'squish' them on my pigs that much, as I was afraid that it would cause them pain, but they were definitely very solid lumps, not squishy.

I would think that if the lump does not go down, the next step would be some kind of more thorough exploration, maybe under anesthesia. That should be more definitive in terms of what's in the lump. I'm still wondering if a simple needle poke either didn't penetrate the capsule or was not large enough to allow thick pus through, only because these sounds so similar to my pigs' abscesses.

I'm dead set on further tests on it, otherwise I'll always be paranoid about what it is, if it hurts, etc. So next week when I go back with him I'm requesting biopsy's, just so I know where to take it treatment and prognosis wise. Although I'm still really holding out hope it's an abscess, and that like you say, it just wasn't popped by the needle. I feel better now you've said your pigs abscesses were firm, all of the info I've read on the internet say they're generally squishy, so fingers crossed it's that still!

 

[LydiaMinx]

So Boris went back today, the lump hasn't changed at all with the Metacam, and Boris still isn't bothered by it at all; his appetite is the same, still the happy chap he normally is. The vet thinks it's a benign tumor or lipoma, so is keen to take it off to be safe. He's booked in for surgery to have it removed on the 29th, fingers crossed he's all good after that!

 

[Critter]

When I brought Shadow down to the vet with a lump on her rump he also put in a needle to aspirate the fluid, believing at the time he would draw up cyst-gunk. He drew up fresh blood. Thinking, therefore, that she actually had a fast-growing tumour, and being as she also had a smaller lump on her side, we felt it had spread and that she should go home to enjoy life while she still felt fine.
However - days later the lump burst and there it was - a sebaceous cyst! So it is possible.

Either way, I'm glad it's being removed. Let's hope that sorts it out once and for all, and there's nothing else. xx

 

[Freela]

Hopefully at that point you will have a firm diagnosis and he can start recovering. You will have to let us know what they find during the surgery, now my curiosity has been piqued!

 

[LydiaMinx]

When I brought Shadow down to the vet with a lump on her rump he also put in a needle to aspirate the fluid, believing at the time he would draw up cyst-gunk. He drew up fresh blood. Thinking, therefore, that she actually had a fast-growing tumour, and being as she also had a smaller lump on her side, we felt it had spread and that she should go home to enjoy life while she still felt fine.
However - days later the lump burst and there it was - a sebaceous cyst! So it is possible.

Either way, I'm glad it's being removed. Let's hope that sorts it out once and for all, and there's nothing else. xx

Thank you! The vet did say it's possible it could pop or simply disappear (as I've read some fatty lumps just do?) between now and the 29th, so we can cancel if needed. I'm very nervous about this operation though, Badgers was a dental, so no slicing or blood - this is a whole other ball game! Can't stop worrying about the poor chap and he's none the wiser!

Hopefully at that point you will have a firm diagnosis and he can start recovering. You will have to let us know what they find during the surgery, now my curiosity has been piqued!

Thank you, hopefully they should know what it is on sight when removed, fingers crossed nothing nasty! I'll definitely report back though!

 

[Abi_nurse]

Fingers crossed all goes ok. I would be really interested to see what the lump comes back as (if you send it off that is)

x

 

[LydiaMinx]

Fingers crossed all goes ok. I would be really interested to see what the lump comes back as (if you send it off that is)

x

Thank you! I'll be having it sent off if they can't tell what it is themselves (there's two vets doing this operation apparently, which makes me more nervous!), not knowing will drive me crazy!