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Help?! Tubs Lethargic And Not Eating (been To Vet, Nothing Obviously Wrong)

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Took Tubs to be admitted as an in-patient about 7pm as he wasn't getting any better. On examination, the guinea-savvy vet was very unhappy with how he was coping, noting that his expression and body language was much more pained (I love her, I really do she's fab with both patients and people).

She's going to give him electrolytes and gut stimulant by injection as well as some non-morphine pain relief and I should hopefully get an update at some point tonight. We all agreed that he wasn't to be released to us until he's eating proper pelleted food and hay on his own (he can't even be syringe-fed right now, so it might be a very expensive stay, bless him. Worth it though :wub:).
 
How worrying for you. I won't let buprenorphine anywhere near my pigs after a bad experience, my 18 month old sow passed away but she was ill. The thing that bothers me most about it was it was given to my pig on a whim after I took her to the vet at tea time as she suddenly refused all food and was quiet (she ate 3 hours earlier and popcorned like normal.) the only thing they found was reduced gut sounds, so didn't want to give Metacam Incase it made it worse. Hence the buprenorphine.
It made her flat and weak, spaced out. I gave her 2 hours before trying to feed her, she was even flatter and didn't fight.

She gradually got weaker and stopped swallowing. Off to OOH vet where she was found to have a fever. She died not long after, her illness started and ended in 6 hours.

I have no idea if she would've survived should she not have had buprenorphine as she clearly had an infection in her body, but it has made me terrified of it.

I use tramadol for fudges arthritis (she can't tolerate normal Metacam doses) and it helps massively. Effective pain relief with no sedative effect whatsoever.

I really hope the antibiotics work for whatever Tubs has going on. Will be thinking of you tonight xx
 
Your experience sounds very like what was happening with Tubs. I've just heard from the vet; he's a little brighter after injection of electrolytes and is taking a little water from syringe. Hopefully he'll last the night.

What's certain is that I'll have it put on their file to never ever be given buprenorphine. I wish more vets knew about this!
 
Your experience sounds very like what was happening with Tubs. I've just heard from the vet; he's a little brighter after injection of electrolytes and is taking a little water from syringe. Hopefully he'll last the night.

What's certain is that I'll have it put on their file to never ever be given buprenorphine. I wish more vets knew about this!
Taking water orally is positive! My mallow just got flatter and flatter and her gag never returned.

Really hope he keeps improving xx
 
Fingers crossed for your poor boy. They took my Petal in & gave her emeraid syringe food, it is very expensive but high in calories & they only need a few ml a day as opposed to normal Critical Care etc. She made a full recovery though, it just took a 3 day stay at the vets. Keep positive, he may just look much worse than he actually is x
 
Update 4.30pm today from vet. Tubs has been up and down, overall brighter than he was, but he hasn't pooed or wee'd in what is coming up on 32 hours now. He took a little syringe feed earlier today, but then wasn't able to take any when offered around 3pm. The subcutaneous fluids and electrolytes have helped, he's gained 15g overnight.

The vet warned me that we'll just need to see what happens in the next 24-48 hours, but if he's still not at least attempting to eat for himself in that time they might need to refer him to the small animal hospital up at the University of Edinburgh; does anyone have experience with them? I reckon the worst of the buprenorphine has worn off, but that we're ultimately back to square one; his inflamed lymph nodes and general illness are hurting him so much that he can't (or won't) eat...

The most cavy savvy vet is now unfortunately away on holiday, but has handed over to one of her colleagues and the most cavy savvy nurse. The new vet is meant to be calling me in the next hour or two; I'll be sure to ask if they've tried Tramadol.

My poor boy. Flubs (who lives next to but separately from Tubs) is a lot less active and generally seems quite depressed. It's quite worrying to see, especially because Tubs might be away for at least a couple more days yet. I have a possible solution to this, I'll update this post linking to the relevant thread once I've written it!
 
Nothing helpful to add, but you are giving your boy every chance.
Fingers crossed he is able to rally soon.
Huge hugs from Switzerland for all of you tonight.
 
Vet just phoned about Tubs. He's actually taking a little bit of syringe feed now (quoting the vet "he was keen for it" :)), and pooed at 7pm :clap:. Next update tomorrow morning, hopefully he continues to want to eat.

Thanks everyone, for your encouragement, stories, and sympathy. It's made me and my partner feel better through this whole experience.
 
Great that there's some improvement! I think referring him to Edinburgh from where u are would be an awful lot for him in his condition. Maybe u should try finding an excellent piggy savvy vet from another practice or hospital that would involve less of a journey, even have them liase with dick vet in Edinburgh over the phone?

Did they biopsy his lymph nodes to find out why they are up?

This was offered to me when fudges didn't go down with antibiotics but i refused it, purely because it would have to be done consciously in fudge with her heart failure, and other than infection being the cause it's likely something nasty.. Which we can't treat. For her, being fit in herself it isn't the right thing to do but for tubs being so ill and struggling for a diagnosis it's probably a wise move x
 
Can you get the vet to try Emeraid herbivore food syringed to him? When Petal had her collapse it was brilliant at getting her to eat again. It is about 2-3 times the price of Critical Care but has much more calories & they seem to love it x
 
Another update: saw Tubs yesterday and he was a little livelier, he took a sprig of coriander from my hand and a little bit of Critical Care off a spoon. After that he really quietened down. This morning I got a really positive update from the vet, and we agreed I'd take him home tonight. He's about a third of the way through his two antibiotics, and he's being given ranitidine due to one of the antiBs being Baytril; I've been sent home with all of these, as well as more loxicom.

He's home now and he's looking great. He's hopping around and not really using his back legs at the moment because he developed bumblefoot while at the vets :( -- tomorrow I'm going to start Epsom salt soaks and hope the antiBs he's on will clear things up.

However, he's EATING :yahoo:, slowly crunching pellets (which I'm surprised at, he went completely off them after his neuter) and hoovering up coriander (again slowly but with vigour). I just hope he starts on the hay soon.

He is scooting around and sticking his nose through the bars at Flubs, and Flubs is just delighted, rumblestrutting back and popcorning everywhere.

Fingers crossed his appetite keeps on the up and up, that he takes his meds, and that his bumblefoot clears up. He's due back at the vets later on this week.
 
That's sounding more positive, I am pleased :) Try leaving some softened nuggets in his house, I pour a little cooled boiled warm water on some, leave to cool a while, check it's not to hot for him though. Also, encourage him to try some of the softer stalks of hay, I usually sit with them on my lap & feed them the little softer bits to encourage them to eat hay again x
 
He's unfortunately not into softened nuggets or soft bits of hay @Poppy'sMum, he won't touch either (apart from to cuddle into the hay)...

Once we got him home last night, we let him try and eat for himself and he went straight for a few mouthfuls of veg and a couple pellets. We then left him for a couple of hours, got ~3ml of syringe feed into him and gave him his evening meds (detailed below). OH gave him another small feed before he came to bed (~5ml). I woke up to lots of very tiny poos (he's on a gut stimulant).

This morning I gave his morning meds, and offered a spoonful of syringe feed of which he took a few bites. OH then fed him 3 times today, about ~3-5ml each time. I've just given him his evening meds again and got him to eat around 9ml of syringe feed.

My main issue at the moment are his poos -- they were tiny but well-formed this morning (with some sticking together), but this evening he's getting quite a lot of squishy poo stuck in his anal sac; they aren't keeping their shape and are much lighter in colour. I'm currently offering veg (which he eats about half of), pellets (which he eats a couple of) and hay (which he isn't really eating, as far as I can tell). Should I remove the veg and just leave the pellets, or is the very mild diarrhoea an expected side effect of his gut stimulant?

He's also not really moving around much at all today :mal:, yesterday he seemed much brighter. I just don't know what to do :(

The current meds he's on are:
  • Baytril 2.5% 0.3ml every 12 hours
  • Ranitidine 0.26ml every 12 hours
  • Metronidazole 0.2ml every 12 hours
  • Cat loxicom (0.5mg/ml) 0.15ml once daily
 
Things aren't going very well. While Tubs' weight remained stable overnight, he's not trying to eat anything apart from the odd spring of coriander for himself (which is worse than he was doing at the vets). He's fighting the syringe feeds but we're managing to get about 40ml down him, plus some Avipro. He won't touch any kind of hay (I think possibly his molars are overgrown at this point), and when I offered him wheatgrass today (his favourite) he mouthed it but didn't eat it. His poos are still soft (I've removed all veggies apart from a single sliver of pepper in the morning), and he seems to be finding it painful to poop (hunching over squeaking).

It's been two weeks since we noticed he was ill, and a week since they discovered his lymph nodes being inflamed... He's not in quite as much pain as he was previously, but he's still not really moving about at all (hence he now has bumblefoot on both rear footpads which I'm treating and it's staying stable). We're going back to the vets today for a check-up.

I know the antibiotics or the pain might be the cause of the loss of appetite and lethargy, but I really don't know what to do at this point. He doesn't have much of a quality of life at the minute -- he sinks down onto the fleece and doesn't move much until our next syringe feed, which he hates. He sometimes lies next to Flubs separated by a C&C grid, but no longer rumblestruts at him. Most of the time he chooses to sit in his fleecy tunnel very quietly.

OH thinks it's worth it to keep going because it might just be the antibiotics making him like this, and I agree most of the time, but it's just so heartbreaking to watch him. I'm also worried about if and when he'll start eating for himself again -- there's no sign of that whatsoever at the moment. Later on today I'm going to get some Dioralyte (sp?) to see if some extra electrolytes might help.

If anyone has words of wisdom, I'd love to hear them (@Poppy'sMum, @Adelle, @Wiebke).
 
HUGS

All you can do is to hang in there, continuing to feed little but often around the clock and to speak to your vet again. You main aim is at the moment to see whether you can get him through this crisis somehow. It is very much an up and down, and it is a very draining emotional and physical rollercoaster, especially when exhaustion and lack of sleep really hit.

You are doing all your can, and that is all you supposed to do.

Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
 
Another vet visit this afternoon (unfortunately not with the most cavy-savvy vet); there wasn't really much of an outcome. Vet noted that Tubs' tummy was quite hard; she seemed worried that the lymph nodes in his abdomen aren't going down.

However, vet also said there was literally nothing more she could do to treat, apart from more pain relief (which he doesn't seem to need right now), due to being on 2x antiBs, pain medication, and gut stimulant. He was quite dehydrated today (my fault for not taking appropriate action for the slight diarrhoea last night), so the vet gave us some subcutaneous fluids to take home to try for a couple of days. Worth noting that his weight has stabilised at around 780g. He's so bony now. :(

Both myself and OH are really hoping that it's the Baytril that's making Tubs lethargic and unwilling to eat anything. We're toying around with the decision to take him off it altogether, two days earlier than if we completed the course (he's been on it for 7 days now). The reason we're thinking about taking him off it is that at the vets when he had it via injections, by all accounts he was getting brighter each day and he even ate hay! Now he's home, he's taking it orally and since then we've really seen him decline, with increased lethargy, refusal to eat anything himself, and soft mushy poos.

I mean, that lack of eating and lethargy were present, quite badly, at the start of his illness, but it's now of a distinctly different character -- now he's not interested in anything, even Critical Care off the spoon, and he isn't hunched over, crying, and fluffed up or flat, just weak-looking and not keen to move about at all (no doubt not helped by his bumblefoot).

Does anyone know if metronidazole (Flagyl) would cause the same issues as Baytril? He's also on that antibiotic but we weren't planning on stopping that until the course was finished (at least another week).

The vet wasn't very optimistic today, I think she's trying to prepare us for the possibility of having to let Tubs go... I know it's not fair to let him suffer, but when his symptoms might be caused by antibiotic intolerance I think it's fair to give him some more time and see how he goes. OH and I were pretty devastated after the consult today.
 
How is he today? I've had Flagyl for one of mine that was prone to bloaty episodes & she tolerated it pretty well. I've not ever been prescribed Baytril by my vet, she uses Marbocyl or Septrin mostly. Hope he is ok x
 
Unfortunately he's in a pretty bad place, @Poppy'sMum. He's only able to take 1ml of syringe feed and needs to go back to the cage for half an hour to have any chance to swallow and empty his mouth. On the other hand, his soft poo has firmed up.

He's shaking a little, but is able to hold his head up a bit. I gave 5cc of subQ fluids this morning. I'm really worried what the rest of today will bring, but want to give him a chance without the baytril.

Do you have any advice on when it's "time" to not make him try to fight anymore... I don't want to have him PTS but if he isn't taking feed better by tomorrow night, well... We'll need to re-evaluate.
 
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