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Help?! Tubs Lethargic And Not Eating (been To Vet, Nothing Obviously Wrong)

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Another update: saw Tubs yesterday and he was a little livelier, he took a sprig of coriander from my hand and a little bit of Critical Care off a spoon. After that he really quietened down. This morning I got a really positive update from the vet, and we agreed I'd take him home tonight. He's about a third of the way through his two antibiotics, and he's being given ranitidine due to one of the antiBs being Baytril; I've been sent home with all of these, as well as more loxicom.

He's home now and he's looking great. He's hopping around and not really using his back legs at the moment because he developed bumblefoot while at the vets :( -- tomorrow I'm going to start Epsom salt soaks and hope the antiBs he's on will clear things up.

However, he's EATING :yahoo:, slowly crunching pellets (which I'm surprised at, he went completely off them after his neuter) and hoovering up coriander (again slowly but with vigour). I just hope he starts on the hay soon.

He is scooting around and sticking his nose through the bars at Flubs, and Flubs is just delighted, rumblestrutting back and popcorning everywhere.

Fingers crossed his appetite keeps on the up and up, that he takes his meds, and that his bumblefoot clears up. He's due back at the vets later on this week.
 
That's sounding more positive, I am pleased :) Try leaving some softened nuggets in his house, I pour a little cooled boiled warm water on some, leave to cool a while, check it's not to hot for him though. Also, encourage him to try some of the softer stalks of hay, I usually sit with them on my lap & feed them the little softer bits to encourage them to eat hay again x
 
He's unfortunately not into softened nuggets or soft bits of hay @Poppy'sMum, he won't touch either (apart from to cuddle into the hay)...

Once we got him home last night, we let him try and eat for himself and he went straight for a few mouthfuls of veg and a couple pellets. We then left him for a couple of hours, got ~3ml of syringe feed into him and gave him his evening meds (detailed below). OH gave him another small feed before he came to bed (~5ml). I woke up to lots of very tiny poos (he's on a gut stimulant).

This morning I gave his morning meds, and offered a spoonful of syringe feed of which he took a few bites. OH then fed him 3 times today, about ~3-5ml each time. I've just given him his evening meds again and got him to eat around 9ml of syringe feed.

My main issue at the moment are his poos -- they were tiny but well-formed this morning (with some sticking together), but this evening he's getting quite a lot of squishy poo stuck in his anal sac; they aren't keeping their shape and are much lighter in colour. I'm currently offering veg (which he eats about half of), pellets (which he eats a couple of) and hay (which he isn't really eating, as far as I can tell). Should I remove the veg and just leave the pellets, or is the very mild diarrhoea an expected side effect of his gut stimulant?

He's also not really moving around much at all today :mal:, yesterday he seemed much brighter. I just don't know what to do :(

The current meds he's on are:
  • Baytril 2.5% 0.3ml every 12 hours
  • Ranitidine 0.26ml every 12 hours
  • Metronidazole 0.2ml every 12 hours
  • Cat loxicom (0.5mg/ml) 0.15ml once daily
 
Things aren't going very well. While Tubs' weight remained stable overnight, he's not trying to eat anything apart from the odd spring of coriander for himself (which is worse than he was doing at the vets). He's fighting the syringe feeds but we're managing to get about 40ml down him, plus some Avipro. He won't touch any kind of hay (I think possibly his molars are overgrown at this point), and when I offered him wheatgrass today (his favourite) he mouthed it but didn't eat it. His poos are still soft (I've removed all veggies apart from a single sliver of pepper in the morning), and he seems to be finding it painful to poop (hunching over squeaking).

It's been two weeks since we noticed he was ill, and a week since they discovered his lymph nodes being inflamed... He's not in quite as much pain as he was previously, but he's still not really moving about at all (hence he now has bumblefoot on both rear footpads which I'm treating and it's staying stable). We're going back to the vets today for a check-up.

I know the antibiotics or the pain might be the cause of the loss of appetite and lethargy, but I really don't know what to do at this point. He doesn't have much of a quality of life at the minute -- he sinks down onto the fleece and doesn't move much until our next syringe feed, which he hates. He sometimes lies next to Flubs separated by a C&C grid, but no longer rumblestruts at him. Most of the time he chooses to sit in his fleecy tunnel very quietly.

OH thinks it's worth it to keep going because it might just be the antibiotics making him like this, and I agree most of the time, but it's just so heartbreaking to watch him. I'm also worried about if and when he'll start eating for himself again -- there's no sign of that whatsoever at the moment. Later on today I'm going to get some Dioralyte (sp?) to see if some extra electrolytes might help.

If anyone has words of wisdom, I'd love to hear them (@Poppy'sMum, @Adelle, @Wiebke).
 
HUGS

All you can do is to hang in there, continuing to feed little but often around the clock and to speak to your vet again. You main aim is at the moment to see whether you can get him through this crisis somehow. It is very much an up and down, and it is a very draining emotional and physical rollercoaster, especially when exhaustion and lack of sleep really hit.

You are doing all your can, and that is all you supposed to do.

Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
 
Another vet visit this afternoon (unfortunately not with the most cavy-savvy vet); there wasn't really much of an outcome. Vet noted that Tubs' tummy was quite hard; she seemed worried that the lymph nodes in his abdomen aren't going down.

However, vet also said there was literally nothing more she could do to treat, apart from more pain relief (which he doesn't seem to need right now), due to being on 2x antiBs, pain medication, and gut stimulant. He was quite dehydrated today (my fault for not taking appropriate action for the slight diarrhoea last night), so the vet gave us some subcutaneous fluids to take home to try for a couple of days. Worth noting that his weight has stabilised at around 780g. He's so bony now. :(

Both myself and OH are really hoping that it's the Baytril that's making Tubs lethargic and unwilling to eat anything. We're toying around with the decision to take him off it altogether, two days earlier than if we completed the course (he's been on it for 7 days now). The reason we're thinking about taking him off it is that at the vets when he had it via injections, by all accounts he was getting brighter each day and he even ate hay! Now he's home, he's taking it orally and since then we've really seen him decline, with increased lethargy, refusal to eat anything himself, and soft mushy poos.

I mean, that lack of eating and lethargy were present, quite badly, at the start of his illness, but it's now of a distinctly different character -- now he's not interested in anything, even Critical Care off the spoon, and he isn't hunched over, crying, and fluffed up or flat, just weak-looking and not keen to move about at all (no doubt not helped by his bumblefoot).

Does anyone know if metronidazole (Flagyl) would cause the same issues as Baytril? He's also on that antibiotic but we weren't planning on stopping that until the course was finished (at least another week).

The vet wasn't very optimistic today, I think she's trying to prepare us for the possibility of having to let Tubs go... I know it's not fair to let him suffer, but when his symptoms might be caused by antibiotic intolerance I think it's fair to give him some more time and see how he goes. OH and I were pretty devastated after the consult today.
 
How is he today? I've had Flagyl for one of mine that was prone to bloaty episodes & she tolerated it pretty well. I've not ever been prescribed Baytril by my vet, she uses Marbocyl or Septrin mostly. Hope he is ok x
 
Unfortunately he's in a pretty bad place, @Poppy'sMum. He's only able to take 1ml of syringe feed and needs to go back to the cage for half an hour to have any chance to swallow and empty his mouth. On the other hand, his soft poo has firmed up.

He's shaking a little, but is able to hold his head up a bit. I gave 5cc of subQ fluids this morning. I'm really worried what the rest of today will bring, but want to give him a chance without the baytril.

Do you have any advice on when it's "time" to not make him try to fight anymore... I don't want to have him PTS but if he isn't taking feed better by tomorrow night, well... We'll need to re-evaluate.
 
You've gone through so much Danielle & so has Tubs, you have to make the decision as to Tubs quality of life. No body can make the decision for you. It's going to be hard whatever you decide. love & hugs coming your way. I'll be thinking of you both.
 
It's such a difficult decision to make.

I usually look at their eyes for the ultimate deciding factor. When they've had enough their eyes aren't bright and sparkly anymore, they look sad.

I have to weigh up whether they're going to get better, do I have the facilities to help them, like the time and the money. Is the vet good enough to save them.

I go by their behaviour too. Are they happy as they are? Are they in pain, with sticking up hair and squinting eyes? Can they move around?

I have a boy that's ill at the moment. His back legs have stopped working and he's not eating much. But his eyes are bright and he's looking around and seems happy so for now we're going to fight as hard as we can.
 
It is never an easy decision, and as silly as it sounds I always discuss it with my pet. I stit with them calmly and explain that if they are ready to go we can help them with that.
I ask if they are ready, and I think deep down you usually know the answer.
Wishing you and Tubs peace and strength with whatever you decide.
The most important thing is that he is loved, and he most certainly knows that.
 
I am sorry you are going through such a difficult time with Tubs. We are thinking of you and hoping for a positive outcome.
 
Thanks everyone for the kind words :hug:. I can't believe how much this gorgeous little man has wormed his way into our hearts despite being a grumpy little so-and-so half the time. OH and I have been in bits all day.

Tubs is still with us, he's been taking around 2ml of critical care every hour to hour and a half; he's still holding a bit of syringe feed in his mouth but he's definitely chewing and swallowing at the moment so I start every feed with 1ml of water to wash down the residue. He's a little brighter, moving around a little bit when placed on a pee pad and even chuntering when we placed him on the bed with us for a little while (though he prefers to stay very firmly put in his fleecy tube in the cage, no movement there once he's settled). Last night we gave him some Dioralyte and we've stopped the Baytril. Since we did this, something very odd has been happening...

I hold Tubs upright to feed and water him, his bottom on the table and his back against my stomach. This morning, when placed in that position, his tummy made a massive gurgle and I could physically see a big lump or swelling form on the left hand side of his abdomen nearer the bottom. I placed him horizontal for a minute, then checked again - his tummy was back to normal. However, any time I approach him with a syringe now, his stomach starts gurgling and the large lump swells under the skin. Sometimes I can see his entire abdomen gently roiling (especially near the bottom), almost like something out of Alien. It doesn't hurt when I palpitate him, and since his tummy's been like this he's been doing quite large soft poos, much better formed than the other night but quite squishy.

The experienced guinea pig nurse had never heard of something like this before, and the localise nature (and quickness of the swelling) doesn't make me think bloat. Has anyone experienced something like his before?
 
That's what I'm hoping @Tiamolly123 :). His front teeth are fine, and his molars looked okay when checked 2 weeks ago. He'll probably need them filed down now though as he's been eating exclusively syringe feed. The original vet looking after him was the most piggy savvy in the area -- as of a week ago she went on holiday so we've been making do (though all the vets are this practice are somewhat knowledgeable about exotics). One of the nurses at the practice is extremely piggy-savvy too so that helps. He's only 1 year 4 months old; this all flared up about 4 weeks after his neuter operation.
 
Don't say that I've just had my 4 month old neutered.
I know mine looked depressed so we took him out of the cage & we held him most of the day then he seemed OK. Same as you we had trouble getting his gut moving. Did Tubs have a full anesethetic or gas. When does your vet get back.
 
That's exactly how they both were after the operation, but really perked up after a day or two. I didn't mean to worry you, my vets think the neuter and current problems are unrelated (or maybe he always had this condition and the neuter + lots of travelling for Christmas stressed out his immune system).

He had gas, as far as I know (both the neuter and the exploratory operation. However, I fully believe it was the buprenorphine both times (vertergesic) that made him lethargic, depressed, and made his gut slow right down rather than the operation itself.

I don't know when my regular vet is back, I'll check at my next appointment on Monday. Hopefully soon, but she's very in demand so it might be tricky to see her straight away...
 
Mine had gas as well, it's probably not related. Nurses know there stuff but I'm always happier with the vet.
I really hope Tubs recovers hopefully it's just time. Fingers crossed.
If you just want to chat we are all here, I find it helps to share things.
 
Quick update. Tubs off all antibiotics and is slowly becoming more active, eating little strands of hay and demolishing his veggies, though given the option he still prefers to burrow in hay or lie in a fleecy tunnel. He still isn't eating pellets or any real amount of hay, so we're still having to syringe feed him his almost entire intake of calories, which isn't great. He's still on ranitidine and loxicom under vets orders. On Saturday he lost 50g, and is maintaining that weight or losing a couple grams each day, but vet says there isn't much we can do. I managed to get a hold of Emeraid Herbivore, which is great for bulking him up, but was warned the fibre in that feed isn't rough enough long-term, so we're splitting the feeds half-and-half with Oxbow Critical Care to make sure his guts are still moving along nicely. His poos are still small but they are getting better-shaped.

We're cautiously optimistic (especially given the state he was on Saturday), but I'm now just wishing he could get better faster -- at the moment it's incredibly slow, and we wonder if he'll ever be able to eat fully on his own again. The syringe feeds are exhausting, as he still isn't actively wanting anything which isn't veggies or grass, so we need to fight with him to get the food in. However, if we don't syringe feed him he loses horrendous amounts of weight. Poor little man. Has anyone else experienced a protracted recovery where the piggy would not resume eating hay and is very sedentary? We've tried him on something like six different types of hay now...

I'm going to make another appointment for the piggy-savvy vet, to get her to palpitate his abdomen and see what's happening, and also to check his teeth in case that's the reason he's not eating hay.
 
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