FluffyB
New Born Pup
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2016
- Messages
- 4
- Reaction score
- 6
- Points
- 55
Hello all,
I have been referring to your forum for information and advice while trying to care for my guinea pigs; one of which died Friday morning. I want to share the medical info so that hopefully it can help someone else, who may be searching these boards for help and answers.
Fuff was 5 1/2 years old, short hair, nothin' fancy guinea pig. He had a cowlick on his forehead, and a lack of a patience for the carrot to get into his tummy. Quite the quirky little fellow. Yes, a cavy is a rodent, yes I get that, but they do respond when you come home, wheak like crazy when you approach with the hay bag, and cuddle under your chin for attention or when they don't feel well. I have been surprisingly affected by his death, maybe because I tried to "save" him and failed, or maybe because that little fluff was always a happy part of my day. Yeah, it is both.
Anyway, last summer he dropped weight very quickly. A large piggie, he weighed in at around 1200g. Shiny fur, great appetite. Very few health problems. His weigh shot down to just over a 1000g outta nowhere, and as I waited for the next available at the exotic vet in town, hovered around 990g. Vet saw him, said it was his teeth in need of trimming that was preventing him from eating properly. A hefty sum and surgery later, teeth filed down, pain meds on board, Fuff seemed to be back on track. He went back up to about 975-990 g but never quite got back to the bigger size. Ate well, hopped around, played, had many conversations with our other guinea pig. We thought all was well.
March arrives. dropped weight so fast I didn't know what to do. He was eating like a MANIAC. Pooping fine. Drinking fine and peeing fine. Running around. Talking. Seemed to be himself, but on speed. Skinny. Vet gives him full physical and found a lump in his throat, on/by his thyroid. They briefly anesthetized him (gas) and took blood and biopsy of the mass. Noncancerous, they said. Thyroid nodule/tumor. Remove it and it would be curative. He was suffering from hyperthyroid.
They couldn't get him in until the following week. I hand fed him. He was mostly maintaining his weight, which had now dropped to 760g. They explained that he was burning off everything he ate and then some, and we couldn't feed him around the clock because he could get bloat, or aspirate; critical care and electrolytes 3 times a day (15cc per feeding). They would remove the lump the following wednesday and I would board him for a few days so they could monitor and give high level care. By the time I dropped him off the following Tuesday (they keep them the night before surgery to ensure they know what food and meds happened when), everything seemed to be OK. I was anxious to get rid of that lump. The next day, the day of the surgery, the doctor called. She said he had dropped to 690g since I had dropped him off, despite their handfeedings of high protein/calorie food. He was too low weight now for surgery. I was devastated. I had been so confident in the diagnosis and prognosis that the removal of the lump would be curative, this was hard to hear. What to do? They said I would need to bring him home and try to get his weight up to 900g. I realize now that this was probably not really possible, though if they thought that he was going to die I wish they had just said so in retrospect.
I did some research and found multiple journal articles that offered medical treatment of hyperthyroid as an option. Apparently the surgery was actually very risky sometimes, if there were neck blood vessels near the mass. In addition, there was a "thyroid storm" reaction that was often fatal. Due to low weight, sometimes they didn't make it out of anesthesia -- the surgery can run long if the mass is embedded or near critical areas. I read that carbimazole and other thyroid meds could be used and in some case studies had been successful. I sent the articles to the doctor and asked to have this considered. I was told that they had not had much success with this approach, but that if it could potentially improve quality of life it was worth a try. I ordered the meds from a compounding pharmacy. It took 2 days for them to arrive. He developed diarrhea, and upon testing it was requiring Flagyl. The vet noted that this may be an indication of issues with his immune system. Again, I should have seen the signs but instead I decided that if the guinea pigs in the study survived, and they were same or less weight, and their deaths were noted to be of unknown causes 18-24 months post start of thyroid meds treatment, that all would be OK. He was 5 1/2 years old, and 18-24 months would get him to the far end of the guinea pig lifespan. I set my goal, which is why I think it hit me so hard. I thought he had a chance.
The thyroid meds did work. I gave Fuff the dose, 0.14ml once a day, and I noticed that 1) his temperature normalized-- before, when he ate, he would get very hot. Feet pads hot, ears hot, just hot all over. This was the hyperthyroid symptom that dissipated first; 2) he was not frantic to eat, though this was a bit of a mixed bag. before, he would eat anything put in front of him. Now, he was a little picky, and the point was to get him to gain weight. he was not a fan of being hand fed.; 3) he stopped losing weight. This was the biggest deal because at the vets he kept losing weight FAST. It is amazing just how fast a guinea pig can lose weight. He would gain a little each day but then hover at the same level. He left the hospital at 722g, and he maintained 754 and died at 754g 7 days after discharge.
When he came home, he seemed OK but he began to sleep alot. He would find a comfortable place to lay and just lie down and sleep. I thought that he had low energy from all of the franticness and being at the vet (which is stressful). I also knew that the new thyroid meds would counteract activity, and make him a little more tired. Slowly, he slept more and more. his mouth became somewhat more pale, too. He didn't want to swallow the critical care slurry. The last day, veggies and hay meant nothing. He laid down and died in his favorite napping place. In hindsight, and with more reading of course, the hyperthyroid was hard on his body and likely masked cardiac issues, hence the pale mouth, tiredness and sleep once the thyroid hormones were put into check by the meds.
So, since hyperthyroid in guinea pigs is considered rare, and is often a missed diagnosis per the literature, I'd say keep an eye on the following and head to the vet for treatment ASAP;
1) Eating and losing weight. That tells you there is an endocrine /metabolism issue.
2) Heat. Your guinea pig feels hot- check the feet and the ears in particular and if this is combined with eating and losing weight, suggest hyperthyroid to your vet
My vet gave me three options for treating hyperthyoid:
1) remove the mass. May come back. May not make it through surgery. Can be curative if successfully removed.
2) radioactive iodine treatment. Targeted, not invasive but I was told this is very very painful for the GP, and the stress and pain could kill him.
3) medical route (at my request) - carbimazole or methimazole. There is a really good article on this via academia.edu Hyperthyroidism and Hyperparathyroidism in Guinea Pigs Of course the guinea pigs lived in their study but again the underlying health issues masked by hyperthyroid were likely to blame in my Fuff's case.
Hope this helps someone out there who is looking for answers as I was. Thank you to all of you who contribute, your stories and advice are a wonderful resource.
I have been referring to your forum for information and advice while trying to care for my guinea pigs; one of which died Friday morning. I want to share the medical info so that hopefully it can help someone else, who may be searching these boards for help and answers.
Fuff was 5 1/2 years old, short hair, nothin' fancy guinea pig. He had a cowlick on his forehead, and a lack of a patience for the carrot to get into his tummy. Quite the quirky little fellow. Yes, a cavy is a rodent, yes I get that, but they do respond when you come home, wheak like crazy when you approach with the hay bag, and cuddle under your chin for attention or when they don't feel well. I have been surprisingly affected by his death, maybe because I tried to "save" him and failed, or maybe because that little fluff was always a happy part of my day. Yeah, it is both.
Anyway, last summer he dropped weight very quickly. A large piggie, he weighed in at around 1200g. Shiny fur, great appetite. Very few health problems. His weigh shot down to just over a 1000g outta nowhere, and as I waited for the next available at the exotic vet in town, hovered around 990g. Vet saw him, said it was his teeth in need of trimming that was preventing him from eating properly. A hefty sum and surgery later, teeth filed down, pain meds on board, Fuff seemed to be back on track. He went back up to about 975-990 g but never quite got back to the bigger size. Ate well, hopped around, played, had many conversations with our other guinea pig. We thought all was well.
March arrives. dropped weight so fast I didn't know what to do. He was eating like a MANIAC. Pooping fine. Drinking fine and peeing fine. Running around. Talking. Seemed to be himself, but on speed. Skinny. Vet gives him full physical and found a lump in his throat, on/by his thyroid. They briefly anesthetized him (gas) and took blood and biopsy of the mass. Noncancerous, they said. Thyroid nodule/tumor. Remove it and it would be curative. He was suffering from hyperthyroid.
They couldn't get him in until the following week. I hand fed him. He was mostly maintaining his weight, which had now dropped to 760g. They explained that he was burning off everything he ate and then some, and we couldn't feed him around the clock because he could get bloat, or aspirate; critical care and electrolytes 3 times a day (15cc per feeding). They would remove the lump the following wednesday and I would board him for a few days so they could monitor and give high level care. By the time I dropped him off the following Tuesday (they keep them the night before surgery to ensure they know what food and meds happened when), everything seemed to be OK. I was anxious to get rid of that lump. The next day, the day of the surgery, the doctor called. She said he had dropped to 690g since I had dropped him off, despite their handfeedings of high protein/calorie food. He was too low weight now for surgery. I was devastated. I had been so confident in the diagnosis and prognosis that the removal of the lump would be curative, this was hard to hear. What to do? They said I would need to bring him home and try to get his weight up to 900g. I realize now that this was probably not really possible, though if they thought that he was going to die I wish they had just said so in retrospect.
I did some research and found multiple journal articles that offered medical treatment of hyperthyroid as an option. Apparently the surgery was actually very risky sometimes, if there were neck blood vessels near the mass. In addition, there was a "thyroid storm" reaction that was often fatal. Due to low weight, sometimes they didn't make it out of anesthesia -- the surgery can run long if the mass is embedded or near critical areas. I read that carbimazole and other thyroid meds could be used and in some case studies had been successful. I sent the articles to the doctor and asked to have this considered. I was told that they had not had much success with this approach, but that if it could potentially improve quality of life it was worth a try. I ordered the meds from a compounding pharmacy. It took 2 days for them to arrive. He developed diarrhea, and upon testing it was requiring Flagyl. The vet noted that this may be an indication of issues with his immune system. Again, I should have seen the signs but instead I decided that if the guinea pigs in the study survived, and they were same or less weight, and their deaths were noted to be of unknown causes 18-24 months post start of thyroid meds treatment, that all would be OK. He was 5 1/2 years old, and 18-24 months would get him to the far end of the guinea pig lifespan. I set my goal, which is why I think it hit me so hard. I thought he had a chance.
The thyroid meds did work. I gave Fuff the dose, 0.14ml once a day, and I noticed that 1) his temperature normalized-- before, when he ate, he would get very hot. Feet pads hot, ears hot, just hot all over. This was the hyperthyroid symptom that dissipated first; 2) he was not frantic to eat, though this was a bit of a mixed bag. before, he would eat anything put in front of him. Now, he was a little picky, and the point was to get him to gain weight. he was not a fan of being hand fed.; 3) he stopped losing weight. This was the biggest deal because at the vets he kept losing weight FAST. It is amazing just how fast a guinea pig can lose weight. He would gain a little each day but then hover at the same level. He left the hospital at 722g, and he maintained 754 and died at 754g 7 days after discharge.
When he came home, he seemed OK but he began to sleep alot. He would find a comfortable place to lay and just lie down and sleep. I thought that he had low energy from all of the franticness and being at the vet (which is stressful). I also knew that the new thyroid meds would counteract activity, and make him a little more tired. Slowly, he slept more and more. his mouth became somewhat more pale, too. He didn't want to swallow the critical care slurry. The last day, veggies and hay meant nothing. He laid down and died in his favorite napping place. In hindsight, and with more reading of course, the hyperthyroid was hard on his body and likely masked cardiac issues, hence the pale mouth, tiredness and sleep once the thyroid hormones were put into check by the meds.
So, since hyperthyroid in guinea pigs is considered rare, and is often a missed diagnosis per the literature, I'd say keep an eye on the following and head to the vet for treatment ASAP;
1) Eating and losing weight. That tells you there is an endocrine /metabolism issue.
2) Heat. Your guinea pig feels hot- check the feet and the ears in particular and if this is combined with eating and losing weight, suggest hyperthyroid to your vet
My vet gave me three options for treating hyperthyoid:
1) remove the mass. May come back. May not make it through surgery. Can be curative if successfully removed.
2) radioactive iodine treatment. Targeted, not invasive but I was told this is very very painful for the GP, and the stress and pain could kill him.
3) medical route (at my request) - carbimazole or methimazole. There is a really good article on this via academia.edu Hyperthyroidism and Hyperparathyroidism in Guinea Pigs Of course the guinea pigs lived in their study but again the underlying health issues masked by hyperthyroid were likely to blame in my Fuff's case.
Hope this helps someone out there who is looking for answers as I was. Thank you to all of you who contribute, your stories and advice are a wonderful resource.
You said an interesting thing in your original post that I overlooked at first - that giving them the drug might actually "unmask" underlying heart or kidney problems (hence the fluid on the lungs, I suppose). But her heart and kidneys looked in great shape just a few weeks ago, based on her blood work and physical. Her dose was increased about a month ago, so maybe that is what's happening? I honestly have no clue... Bottom line is, do I give it one more shot and go ahead with the treatment, even when she's unwell? Unfortunately, I will be out of the country for a month after June 14, so I can't really wait it out.