two new piggies, one is being a bully

[plantandpiggiemom]

Hello all, I haven’t had piggies in several years and since before they were owned by my family, I’ve never had two, but I’ve raised several. Three weeks ago, my partner and I got two young females who were close in age (maybe a few weeks apart) and from the same place, but hadn’t interacted much. I thought because they were both babies, they’d get on well and bond. They’re in a two story rabbit hutch, with ample space, toys, two houses, an enrichment play house, and several hay options. Things went smoothly at first. One named sugar who is slightly larger and more outgoing has started to pick on Pippa, who is a little smaller and more timid naturally. We joke that sugars anthem is gangstas paradise, for context. So far there has been only teeth chattering and shoving, and sugar monopolizes the veggies and water. They still play and cuddle up together, but there is rising tension surrounding food. For the first two weeks, they were both afraid to go upstairs, so all food and water stayed down there. Pippa is still afraid to walk up the ramp, so only sugar can go up there for now. I’ve started putting extra veggies upstarts in the hope that sugar would understand that there are plenty of veggies, but now she just thinks that all of it is hers, and shoves Pippa away from the food downstairs until she decides to feast upstairs. I’m adding a second food bowl upstairs and another water bottle to see if that helps, but I’m not sure what to do because sugar still dominates Pippa in the bottom level. Additionally, Pippa is clingier, and tries to follow sugar around and be less than an inch apart at almost all times. This does not go over well with sugar, especially when veggies are given.

any advice? would another piggie to keep Pippa more company be a bad idea? or will this blow over with the changes I’ve already made?

 

[Claire W]

I would definitely suggest you adding a second water bottle and food bowl and see how they get on. Sugar is showing Pippa that she’s boss and so long as it doesn’t go past mild teeth chattering and shoving, I’m afraid there really isn’t much more you can do other than let them ride it out.

Adding a third girl isn’t necessarily going to work as you often get an outsider situation with trios where one pig is left out but not always. Having said that, I and other members have successfully had trios of girls. It all comes down to character comparability at the end of the day. Have you considered a neutered boy if you would like 3 piggies?

 

[Piggies&buns]

As they were not bonded before you got them, then it would have taken them two weeks of fully living together for them to establish a hierarchy and relationship. Its character compatibility which determines whether they will bond, not age.

The behaviour you are describing is not bullying but is normal dominance behaviour - the dominant piggy will have the pick of food and the best hides so this is why there always needs to be two of every item and all hides must have two exits so no piggy can get cornered by the other.
It is advisable to scatter feed veg and pellets instead of using food bowls if you are seeing issues over food. Scatter feeding serves several purposes - it means the dominant piggy cannot hog all the food; they will have the opportunity to be well apart from each other; foraging through big piles of hay to find their hidden veg and pellets is enrichment and will keep them occupied. Dont be tempted to overfeed veg and pellets because the dominant will then likely be getting too much - stick to the one cup/50g of veg per piggy per day and one tablespoon of pellets per pig per day. Ensure hay is spread everywhere in the hutch - hay is their main food source (not veg or pellets) and both piggies must have free and constant access to it.

Ensure the hutch is big enough on the single bottom level (that is a minimum of 4ft for two sows) - upper levels do not count towards the cage size as piggies are not natural climbers.

Adding another piggy will not solve anything. It runs the risk of the outsider situation occurring - inevitably two piggies will end up closer and one will be left out.

Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

 

[plantandpiggiemom]

I would definitely suggest you adding a second water bottle and food bowl and see how they get on. Sugar is showing Pippa that she’s boss and so long as it doesn’t go past mild teeth chattering and shoving, I’m afraid there really isn’t much more you can do other than let them ride it out.

Adding a third girl isn’t necessarily going to work as you often get an outsider situation with trios where one pig is left out but not always. Having said that, I and other members have successfully had trios of girls. It all comes down to character comparability at the end of the day. Have you considered a neutered boy if you would like 3 piggies?

Thank you, will do with the water and food. Their behavior seems pretty normal from what I’m reading and it’s not escalating, I just don’t want Pippa to feel bullied for long. Pippa is showing sings of submission and accepting the role, but sugar overdoes it when food is around, so it should subside with time. Will consider rescuing a neutered boy for any future piggies.
thanks !

 

[plantandpiggiemom]

As they were not bonded before you got them, then it would have taken them two weeks of fully living together for them to establish a hierarchy and relationship. Its character compatibility which determines whether they will bond, not age.

The behaviour you are describing is not bullying but is normal dominance behaviour - the dominant piggy will have the pick of food and the best hides so this is why there always needs to be two of every item and all hides must have two exits so no piggy can get cornered by the other.
It is advisable to scatter feed veg and pellets instead of using food bowls if you are seeing issues over food. Scatter feeding serves several purposes - it means the dominant piggy cannot hog all the food; they will have the opportunity to be well apart from each other; foraging through big piles of hay to find their hidden veg and pellets is enrichment and will keep them occupied. Dont be tempted to overfeed veg and pellets because the dominant will then likely be getting too much - stick to the one cup/50g of veg per piggy per day and one tablespoon of pellets per pig per day. Ensure hay is spread everywhere in the hutch - hay is their main food source (not veg or pellets) and both piggies must have free and constant access to it.

Ensure the hutch is big enough on the single bottom level (that is a minimum of 4ft for two sows) - upper levels do not count towards the cage size as piggies are not natural climbers.

Adding another piggy will not solve anything. It runs the risk of the outsider situation occurring - inevitably two piggies will end up closer and one will be left out.

Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

Thanks so much, I’ll start scattering their veggies. That’s a great tip and I appreciate it a lot. They are given a generous handful of greens twice a day, which averages to about 1cup each, give or take. They’re still not interested in other veggies and fruits, so I’ll be extra mindful of that as I add more into their diet.
I’m very relieved to hear that this is to be expected. They get on unless food has just been added, so it makes sense now that you said that the dominant one gets their pick, that sugar is a brute during that time.
Their habitat is 3x4ft on the bottom, so they have lots of space, and the top level is 3x2 with a slightly angled ramp going up to it. They have three areas where hay is located, and it’s scattered everywhere. I added a second pellet bowl upstairs, and I’ll only put enough for sugar to have a daily amount since she is the only one brave enough to go up there for now. Would a second water bottle be better for upstairs or downstairs, then, if most of their interactions take place downstairs?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thanks so much, I’ll start scattering their veggies. That’s a great tip and I appreciate it a lot. They are given a generous handful of greens twice a day, which averages to about 1cup each, give or take. They’re still not interested in other veggies and fruits, so I’ll be extra mindful of that as I add more into their diet.
I’m very relieved to hear that this is to be expected. They get on unless food has just been added, so it makes sense now that you said that the dominant one gets their pick, that sugar is a brute during that time.
Their habitat is 3x4ft on the bottom, so they have lots of space, and the top level is 3x2 with a slightly angled ramp going up to it. They have three areas where hay is located, and it’s scattered everywhere. I added a second pellet bowl upstairs, and I’ll only put enough for sugar to have a daily amount since she is the only one brave enough to go up there for now. Would a second water bottle be better for upstairs or downstairs, then, if most of their interactions take place downstairs?

Any new food items should be added slowly so as to not cause a tummy upset. Fruit does not need to be in their diet at all, and as such is considered an occasional treat due to the high sugars.

To clarify, is the downstairs area actually a wooden floored proper hutch or is is a mesh sided run and therefore open to the lawn/ground? Or is it in your house?
If it is mesh run and open to the lawn/ground and they are outside, then I am afraid it cannot be included as their living space because they cannot have constant access to a run if it is outside. This means that the 3x2ft upper hutch area is their main living space and as such is not big enough for a pair of sows. The smallest they should be kept in is 4ft x 2ft but 5x2ft is recommended.

 

[plantandpiggiemom]

Any new food items should be added slowly so as to not cause a tummy upset. Fruit does not need to be in their diet at all, and as such is considered an occasional treat due to the high sugars.

To clarify, is the downstairs area actually a wooden floored proper hutch or is is a mesh sided run and therefore open to the lawn/ground? Or is it in your house?
If it is mesh run and open to the lawn/ground and they are outside, then I am afraid it cannot be included as their living space because they cannot have constant access to a run if it is outside. This means that the 3x2ft upper hutch area is their main living space and as such is not big enough for a pair of sows. The smallest they should be kept in is 4ft x 2ft but 5x2ft is recommended.

Yes, we’ve given them only baby kale and baby spinach for the past three weeks, with an attempt at cucumbers, raspberries, and apples. They would probably only get fruit one a week or so as a treat once they actually like it. I scattered the greens I gave them today, and they didn’t have any disputes. Thank you so much for that tip! I put in the second water bottle and food bowl as well. They’re getting on much better and running around as I type this.

As for the hutch, it’s inside our home and has a mesh bottom on the bottom floor with wood underneath to catch poos, but I thought that would be bad for their feet, so they have several layers of padded bedding in the form of a bottom towel and a to-size dog bed changed daily. The weather isn’t nice enough for them to be outside, and I’d worry about animals too much, so they have a play pen that I will take them outside to supervise them in for the future when they’re more settled. They seem to be liking it just fine so far. I tested the padding out with my hands and the grates cannot even be felt, plus there’s a layer of hay on top scattered. The walls are mostly grate, with areas of wood paneling, and three doors. The bottom floor is their main space because the little one is nervous about walking up the ramp. There’s a hide in it, two water bottles, chews, a hide that’s made from wood and hanging toys for enrichment, a food bowl, and two hay areas. To clarify, the upstairs space is connected to the bottom as one piece, and there’s a ramp with maybe a 20-35 degree incline connecting them. The bottom floor is 3x4ft, three feet tall, and the top floor is 3x2ft. The top has a plastic bottom which we put a hay and bedding down on, and there’s a hide along with a bed, a food bowl, and ample hay. It also acts as half of the roof of the bottom floor, so there’s extra hiding ability because of the privacy it creates. It kind of looks like a small two story house, if that makes sense. I tried to be careful to find one that was big enough and looked like somewhere I’d want to live. Once they both are comfortable with the ramp, there will be extra space, Pippa just has to get more comfortable. I worry that she feels closed in with just the bottom floor, but she seems happy, and is starting to explore the ramp. Hope that clears things up, thanks for the concern and help!

 

[Piggies&buns]

Please dont feed kale or spinach often - while it is safe for them, it is too high in calcium to feature regularly in their diet. High calcium foods such as kale, spinach and parsley needs to be kept limited to one small piece once per week only. Too much calcium can contribute to the formation of bladder stones.

Pellets and drinking water are the major contributors of calcium to the diet so ensuring pellets are kept strictly limited to one tablespoon per pig per day and that drinking water is always filtered, along with keeping high calcium veg limited, will help minimise the risk of health issues. There is also a genetic factor as to how likely piggies are to get bladder stones but all we as owners can do is keep high calcium food limited.

Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

That's good that the hutch is inside! Just wanted to check given the top level is too small for them to ever be locked into and if it was outside, then they simply wouldn't have had enough space. As its in your house, then that is helps greatly as the bottom floor is their living space (upstairs is simply a bonus and cannot be included in the cage size). This gives them 12 square feet of living space which is above the recommended amount of 10 square feet fo a sow pair (8 square feet minimum)
Yes, walking on wire is very bad for their feet and can contribute to bumble foot.
Ensure any fabric bedding is wicking properly through to an absorbent layer underneath. Towels can have problems but you need to find something which works for you!

A Detailed Guide For Fleece Bedding