Worried about giving elderly piggy Itrafungol

[lilypet]

Hi all,

I haven't posted for years and years, but I joined the form when our 2 piggies were new! Sadly Lily died a few years ago, but Petal is still going strong - she's 7.

However, I took her to the vet's last week because of a bald patch over her eye for about 2 weeks. Suspected ringworm (but no scrape sample was taken as the treatment would have been the same). Vet prescribed Itrafungol, which I ordered online ad has taken a week to arrive.

Now, while waiting for the meds I've been worrying about it not really being ringworm and ending up giving an elderly, otherwise healthy piggy unnecessary meds.
This was prompted by Vets365 who I ordered from sending me a disclaimer to sign, saying that it's not licensed to treat piggies. I do know that many in this forum have used it successfuly though.

Any experiences of treating elderly piggies with Itrafungol and everything being OK? Any adverse reactions? The vet's list of possible side effects was as long as my arm.

She looks happy and healthy, is not scratching and the bald patch doesn't seem to be spreading. I'm very worried we are going to maker her poorly when she's actually fine.

Thanks all!
Lilypet

 

[Bradshaw Piggies]

Hello,

Sorry to hear that your girl is having some problems.

I can't comment on older piggies, all I can say is I have treated a lot of piggies with Itrafungol, including very young piggies. It is an anti-fungol medication but does have some antibiotic effect. When I discussed it with our vets (particularly with regards to the young pigs) they advised to just keep an eye on them whilst they were on it, but that it was very rare they saw any kind of reaction to it when compared to other medications. They recommend it as the best treatment for ringworm. Just as a precaution, maybe you could also use probiotics in case the itrafungol has any impact on the guts?

Ideally your vet could have done a skin scraping, but I think in your case still follow their advice to medicate.
Should it be ringworm, it is important to get on top of it as quickly as possible. I found the guide on here very useful:

Ringworm: Hygiene And Pictures

Be careful handling too, I caught ringworm myself from one of mine.

Though ringworm doesn't tend to be immediately life threatening - it can be a pain.

Hope you girl gets better soon

 

[lilypet]

Thank you Bradshaw! That's reassuring.

Yes, I've had a good look at the guide, very useful. That's why I was bit taken aback when I had to sign that disclaimer. And I am a bit worried about us catching it, especially my daughter. She's old enough to be careful, but still.

The vet did say to keep an eye and if there is no change within a week, to take her back.

The meds arrived today. I'll give the hutch a deep clean after work - rain permitting! - and will get started either tonight or tomorrow.

Thing is, she lives alone and has not been anywhere, no idea where she's caught it from, so I suspect bedding/hay. We have a new sack of hay, but I can't remember if the bedding was bought after the onset of the bald patch or later, so I'll buy new one too.

Thanks again!

 

[Bradshaw Piggies]

Thank you Bradshaw! That's reassuring.

Yes, I've had a good look at the guide, very useful. That's why I was bit taken aback when I had to sign that disclaimer. And I am a bit worried about us catching it, especially my daughter. She's old enough to be careful, but still.

The vet did say to keep an eye and if there is no change within a week, to take her back.

The meds arrived today. I'll give the hutch a deep clean after work - rain permitting! - and will get started either tonight or tomorrow.

Thing is, she lives alone and has not been anywhere, no idea where she's caught it from, so I suspect bedding/hay. We have a new sack of hay, but I can't remember if the bedding was bought after the onset of the bald patch or later, so I'll buy new one too.

Thanks again!

You're very welcome.

One of mine developed it out of no where (he's an older boy = around 6), sometimes it can just be a weakened immune system due to age. It's not that they necessarily need to catch it from another source.

Have you considered a friend for your girl since the passing of her friend? It is not ideal for her to live alone.

Hope things improve on the meds!

 

[lilypet]

Thanks again Bradshaw. I've also just orderd some Pro C to be on the safe side!

We did consider a mate for Petal and spoke to a couple for refuges, but after a cpuple of days of her being a bit quiet, she perked up and she's been very happy since. I don't like to say this, but in hindsight she was constantly bullied by Lily, who was the dominant one, and in all honestly Petal has been happier ever since. She has been on her own for 3 years now, and is very spoiled piggy!

Funnily enough, we found an escaped piggy in our garden a couple of years ago. We tried to introduce him to Petal from outside the hutch (just as well, it turned out to be a young male) but she really did not want to know. She flattened herself, hid in her igloo, made displeased noises and refused to come out. He was very insterested though! I suspect, with her having been on her own for over a year, and the found piggy being very young and male, they just weren't a good match. Shame, he was the cutest thing! His owners were never found so we took him to a rescue.

Fingers crossed for the meds working fine!

 

[Bradshaw Piggies]

Thanks again Bradshaw. I've also just orderd some Pro C to be on the safe side!

We did consider a mate for Petal and spoke to a couple for refuges, but after a cpuple of days of her being a bit quiet, she perked up and she's been very happy since. I don't like to say this, but in hindsight she was constantly bullied by Lily, who was the dominant one, and in all honestly Petal has been happier ever since. She has been on her own for 3 years now, and is very spoiled piggy!

Funnily enough, we found an escaped piggy in our garden a couple of years ago. We tried to introduce him to Petal from outside the hutch (just as well, it turned out to be a young male) but she really did not want to know. She flattened herself, hid in her igloo, made displeased noises and refused to come out. He was very insterested though! I suspect, with her having been on her own for over a year, and the found piggy being very young and male, they just weren't a good match. Shame, he was the cutest thing! His owners were never found so we took him to a rescue.

Fingers crossed for the meds working fine!

Yes it can take several dating sessions until they find a friend that they get along with. I have a boy who is easily bullied and prefers his own space; but he interacts with my other boys through the bars. He quite enjoys having his neighbours around for company. It's always an option if piggies can't live together.

Glad you've got the Pro C ordered too. It needs to be given ideally an hour before or an hour after the Itrafungol dose

 

[lilypet]

Thanks again for the tip!

 

[Wiebke]

Hi all,

I haven't posted for years and years, but I joined the form when our 2 piggies were new! Sadly Lily died a few years ago, but Petal is still going strong - she's 7.

However, I took her to the vet's last week because of a bald patch over her eye for about 2 weeks. Suspected ringworm (but no scrape sample was taken as the treatment would have been the same). Vet prescribed Itrafungol, which I ordered online ad has taken a week to arrive.

Now, while waiting for the meds I've been worrying about it not really being ringworm and ending up giving an elderly, otherwise healthy piggy unnecessary meds.
This was prompted by Vets365 who I ordered from sending me a disclaimer to sign, saying that it's not licensed to treat piggies. I do know that many in this forum have used it successfuly though.

Any experiences of treating elderly piggies with Itrafungol and everything being OK? Any adverse reactions? The vet's list of possible side effects was as long as my arm.

She looks happy and healthy, is not scratching and the bald patch doesn't seem to be spreading. I'm very worried we are going to maker her poorly when she's actually fine.

Thanks all!
Lilypet

Hi!

My 8 years old Nerys had itrafungol when her body started to give up and she ended up with a rat-tail of niggly conditions from problems with her adrenal gland which led to a temporary back leg paralysis and in turn to bumblefoot, which was followed by a fungal skin infection (not ringworm) due to an increasingly frailer immune system; the itrafungol did the trick very nicely and she was free of any fungal issues until the day she died.
She lived for another 4 months until I had to have her euthanised as an emergency in very frail state shortly before a natural death when her eye suddenly blew up and no medication would have kicked in time to prevent it from bursting - which was due to her failing immune system and not the itrafungol.

At the age your piggy is now (the upper end of the average life expectancy), it is more important in my own personal feeling and ample experience after losing well over 30 piggies over the years that you prioritise comfort over longevity in any of your considerations.
Guinea pigs don't have a set life expectancy (which is an entirely human concept); they measure their life in happy todays. Please re-set the clock to zero and see every day more your piggy is doing well and is as comfortable and stress/pain-free as you can make them as a wonderful bonus. It gives you the chance to make the best of whatever time you have left. Quality of life is much more important than quantity, even more so with the elderlies - and you get ultimately more out of it, too.

I hope that this helps you?

 

[lilypet]

Hi!

My 8 years old Nerys had itrafungol when her body started to give up and she ended up with a rat-tail of niggly conditions from problems with her adrenal gland which led to a temporary back leg paralysis and in turn to bumblefoot, which was followed by a fungal skin infection (not ringworm) due to an increasingly frailer immune system; the itrafungol did the trick very nicely and she was free of any fungal issues until the day she died.
She lived for another 4 months until I had to have her euthanised as an emergency in very frail state shortly before a natural death when her eye suddenly blew up and no medication would have kicked in time to prevent it from bursting - which was due to her failing immune system and not the itrafungol.

At the age your piggy is now (the upper end of the average life expectancy), it is more important in my own personal feeling and ample experience after losing well over 30 piggies over the years that you prioritise comfort over longevity in any of your considerations.
Guinea pigs don't have a set life expectancy (which is an entirely human concept); they measure their life in happy todays. Please re-set the clock to zero and see every day more your piggy is doing well and is as comfortable and stress/pain-free as you can make them as a wonderful bonus. It gives you the chance to make the best of whatever time you have left. Quality of life is much more important than quantity, even more so with the elderlies - and you get ultimately more out of it, too.

I hope that this helps you?

Sorry for the delay, having trouble accessing the site from my phone!

Thanks very much Wiebke! Sorry to hear about your poor Nerys, sounds like she had a good life. I agree that quality of life is the most important thing. Thankfully, Petal seems perfectly happy and healthy other than the suspected ringworm.

I finally received all the supplies and have disinfected the hutch, put the probiotic in the water, and started treating her with Itrafungol on Friday evening.

Can I ask a question about dosage please? I think I'm under-dosing, but I rather under than overdose, and can't speak to the vet until tomorrow afternoon at the earliest.

Vet said 1ml of Itrafungol per kg of body weight. But the box says 0.5ml per kg. So I've been worried sick the vet made a mistake and I'd give Petal double the amount!

I've looked at old posts here and the consensus is the dosage is the same as for cats (so far so good), but some say once a day and some twice a day (hence the confusion)

Can anybody confirm what dose they used to successfully treat their piggies?

Thanks again!

 

[Wiebke]

Sorry for the delay, having trouble accessing the site from my phone!

Thanks very much Wiebke! Sorry to hear about your poor Nerys, sounds like she had a good life. I agree that quality of life is the most important thing. Thankfully, Petal seems perfectly happy and healthy other than the suspected ringworm.

I finally received all the supplies and have disinfected the hutch, put the probiotic in the water, and started treating her with Itrafungol on Friday evening.

Can I ask a question about dosage please? I think I'm under-dosing, but I rather under than overdose, and can't speak to the vet until tomorrow afternoon at the earliest.

Vet said 1ml of Itrafungol per kg of body weight. But the box says 0.5ml per kg. So I've been worried sick the vet made a mistake and I'd give Petal double the amount!

I've looked at old posts here and the consensus is the dosage is the same as for cats (so far so good), but some say once a day and some twice a day (hence the confusion)

Can anybody confirm what dose they used to successfully treat their piggies?

Thanks again!

Hi!

I have always treated on the lower dose as per prescription by my vet - 0.05 ml for every 100g of weight once daily.

However, it can well be that in the meantime in more severe cases a higher dosage has proven to be safe to use in guinea pigs. My Ceri was the first itrafungol 'guinea pig' guinea pig for my treating vet when it started being used and
they were not really convinced yet - that was back in 2012.

Personally, I would always go with your vet because they will have looked up the possible dosage range and weighed it up against the severity, circumstances and potential side effects. Since none of us is a vet, we can only go by the usual prescription range but we are not trained in taking all the individual factors in play in every specific case into consideration the way a vet does.

All the best and a good recovery!
Please follow the hygiene advice in our guide - from your own clothing to the piggy coat. Ringworm is mainly a problem because of its extremely high contagiousness, not because it is the most life-threatening health issue.

 

[lilypet]

Thanks Wiebke

I'll carry on as I am until I speak to the vet, I think. Because it seems a very mild/early case, the high dose seems a bit off. Vet may think I'm being an interfering, ignorant client, but I'd rather double check

I'm being paranoid about the potential contagion and I'm following all the recommendations in the guide!

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks Wiebke

I'll carry on as I am until I speak to the vet, I think. Because it seems a very mild/early case, the high dose seems a bit off. Vet may think I'm being an interfering, ignorant client, but I'd rather double check

I'm being paranoid about the potential contagion and I'm following all the recommendations in the guide!

Older guinea pigs can have a very brittle/frail immune system. When that is breached, things like opportunistic infections, parasites and fungal can hit with truly terrifying speed and strength. Your vet may have decided to better hit hard and fast than soft and be too late to the party by opting for the upper rather than the lower end of the dosage range.

I have had to pts/euthanise several oldies of mine when something like this happened and no medication would have been able to kick in quickly enough; including racing Nerys to the out-of-hours vets on August bank holiday Sunday in 2016 when her eye suddenly started bulging massively while she was clearly on her last legs and death was only a matter of days anyway.
It is something you have to prepared for as an owner of an old piggy - you can never predict whether an organ (or which) or the immune system is going to give way first. Gently drifting away is something that happens only comparatively rarely; the dying process is usually much more physical and not rarely a race for relief from sudden suffering.
You may find this link here helpful in making the best of old age and how to deal with its challenges: Caring for Older Piggies and Facing the End - A helpful and supportive information collection

 

[lilypet]

Thanks for that, Wiebke.

I keep trying to call the vet this morning and it's constantly engaged - Monday morning backlog I guess.

What you say makes a lot of sense, unfortunately. At the moment she looks so healthy and active it's hard to think of her going away, but she is quite an age. My daughter especially will be devastated , she adores Petal.

She started with just a bald patch around the eye. Still no other bald patches, but I heave noticed she is losing more hair, and in tiny bunches of 2 or 3 attached to what looks like a flake of skin. I did assume it would be something not very serious, but it is odd that she's picked up ringworm at all, as I said, she doesn't really have mucha of a chance to get infecfed from anywhere. So other than the bedding, no other likely sources.

If I can't get to speak to the vet today I'll up her dose this afternoon and hope for the best.

Thanks for the link to the guide.

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks for that, Wiebke.

I keep trying to call the vet this morning and it's constantly engaged - Monday morning backlog I guess.

What you say makes a lot of sense, unfortunately. At the moment she looks so healthy and active it's hard to think of her going away, but she is quite an age. My daughter especially will be devastated , she adores Petal.

She started with just a bald patch around the eye. Still no other bald patches, but I heave noticed she is losing more hair, and in tiny bunches of 2 or 3 attached to what looks like a flake of skin. I did assume it would be something not very serious, but it is odd that she's picked up ringworm at all, as I said, she doesn't really have mucha of a chance to get infecfed from anywhere. So other than the bedding, no other likely sources.

If I can't get to speak to the vet today I'll up her dose this afternoon and hope for the best.

Thanks for the link to the guide.

Ringworm spores are in the environment and can be carried in on the slows of your shoes or be blown in through the window. Many healthy piggies can fend of a single spores - not every piggy is affected in an outbreak in a group (but they can still pick spores up in their coat and pass them on; that is how I have had my own ringworm outbreaks carried in). At increased risk are always the frailer ones - the young, the pregnant, the ill and the elderlies.

Please take the time to read the information in the old piggies guide link in my previous post. It is vital how you approach this time; if you do it right, it can be a very enriching time for all of you. By dealing with it in a matter-of-fact but constructive way, you can help your daughter immensely in her attitude towards lost and grieving. The hidden gift in knowing that the end is coming is in cherishing every extra day you have with them, concentrating on making it as happy as possible and not leaving anything unsaid and undone - the way in which piggies measure a happy life. More information on that in the link; including further links to grieving tips and how to support children. You can start laying the groundwork now, so it will be a lot easier on both your daughter on you when you come to the sharp end.

 

[lilypet]

Hello all,

An update on Petal's situation -

Unfortunately, the problem is not gone and has got worse, in a way .

I managed to contact the vet, who confirmed the dose and and that treatment should be 6 weeks in total, 3 on 3 off.

I treated her for 4 weeks (2 on 2 off). Her tiny bald patch regrew but that's the only positive.
Decided to stop at 4 weeks, because her hair started falling out more, in little bunches with skin flakes, her black hair had turned brown at the back and she had started to produce a few mishapen poos. We cleaned her grease grand during the bath and the hair colour is back to normal. Assuming the Intrafugol was causing the gland to overactive, but her hair is still falling.

I was just about to book another vet appointment. However, this time I'd like to take her to a specialist in exotics. Unfortunately, the only 'local' one is quite a way away and reviews are mixed (having said that, I've rung 2 different practices explaining the issue and they both recommend this particular vet for exotics).
But I've been told the previous (general) vet will need to refer Petal first. Is this standard practice?

Also, in the meantime, does anyone recognise the issue of bits of hair falling in little bunches attached with skin flakes, and has any suggestions?
If you stroke her and pull very, very slighly it just comes off. Cannot see any actual bald patches though.
The odd thing is, it's only at the back, and her head and the white hair in the middle (she's a black and white Dutch) are unaffected. I've been looking for signs of mites, etc but cannot see anything at all.

Piggy is otherwise happy and eating her weight in Burgess Excel pellets, hay and veg every day.

Many thanks -again- for any suggestions!