Boar drama!

[PiggleParade]

Okay now I’ve read through all the info on boar pairs but I still can’t figure out what to do. Here’s the story:

I brought home two boys that were together at the pet store in august 2020. Gumball and Darwin. They got along really well. The same day there was another pair in the cage beside theirs. Someone came and bought one of those pigs. I didn’t think I could bring three home so I just took the two…but that lone pig stayed in my mind. I hated leaving him behind. When I went back a week later and he was still there, I brought him home. I’d had three male pigs together in the past…what I hadn’t considered was that my first boys (who id had a good sixteen years earlier) were a trio only briefly - one of the older two had died early on. The remaining two tolerated one another pretty well.

So I bring home piggy three: Anaïs (despite the name, he is a boar). He was THRILLED to be with the other two. He was popping and zooming and playing and happy.

Then the bullying began. The first two ganged up on him to the point that he’d self-isolate and began to cry at night (I’d remove him from the cage for the night). When they drew blood, I knew it was time to separate them.

After a few months, I tried to find my lone pig - Anaïs - a new friend. His new pal (Alexander Hamilton who now is typically referred to as “Baby” lol) was a pig roughly three months or so his junior (I know - why the heck didn’t I wait longer? Ugh me and my dumb mistakes). They were okay for a while - wary but okay. Baby was eager to have a pal and it seemed liked anaïs might stay dominant…then Baby’s hormones kicked in.

Now we have the original duo together and the subsequent duo split because of more bloody battles - anaïs is so hyper vigilant from his first experience that he perceives every unexpected movement from another pig as a threat - he’s become combative as a result. Mix that with Baby’s dominant personality and Anaïs’ refusal to submit and they’re TERRIBLE together.

Here’s the odd twist:

Darwin has started jumping from his cage to Anaïs’ cage. Gumball is the dominant pig in their pair but after almost two years together he’s STILL chasing and mounting Darwin constantly. There’s still a ton of rumble strutting between them. Darwin SEEMS to love his brother - he panics if he can’t find him and runs to him when they’re reunited - but he also seems super sick of his brother’s fixation on being the boss.

Darwin and Anaïs DO get into scuffles - usually because Darwin walks unexpectedly somewhere in the cage and it startles Anaïs, triggering his PTSD and temper…but he keeps CHOOSING to go in there. They generally tolerate each other - they tend to rumble in each other’s faces and try to back down for the most part. When Darwin isn’t in there, Anaïs is looking towards Baby’s enclosure and chewing the bars of his cage.

I don’t want to screw up Gumball and Darwin’s bond and I don’t know that Gumball and Baby will work - they’re both SUPER bossy. Still Baby seems desperate for a friend. Do I leave things as they are? Do I try it out and see how it goes? Do I just let Darwin continue to cage hop and give Baby extra attention? I think Anaïs likes having a little company - even if it scares him. I don’t know how traumatizing switching up pairs temporarily can be in the long run - my first boys all those years ago weren’t entirely best friends but they were different enough in temperament that they never had big problems with one another.

Boars are so much more dramatic than I’d remembered!

 

[Piggies&buns]

You need to find out which two get on best and leave them together (and make sure nobody can escape into each others cages).
It might mean going back go basics and putting them on neutral territory to allow them to make the decision about their relationship and whether they want to be together.
Allowing a piggy to keep wandering into another‘s cage while living with another is not a good idea.

You need one dominant and one submissive in each pair. You will always see mounting, chasing (mild dominance) behaviours - it’s what boars do - but it should never be so constant that the submissive piggy cannot handle it. It if does, then that is bullying and will be bond breaking requiring permanent separation.
If they both want to be dominant, then the bond will fail.

Bonds In Trouble
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Moody Guinea Pigs: Depression, Bullying, Aggression, Stress, Fear and Antisocial Behaviour

 

[PiggleParade]

You need to find out which two get on best and leave them together (and make sure nobody can escape into each others cages).
It might mean going back go basics and putting them on neutral territory to allow them to make the decision about their relationship and whether they want to be together.
Allowing a piggy to keep wandering into another‘s cage while living with another is not a good idea.

You need one dominant and one submissive in each pair. You will always see mounting, chasing (mild dominance) behaviours - it’s what boars do - but it should never be so constant that the submissive piggy cannot handle it. It if does, then that is bullying and will be bond breaking requiring permanent separation.
If they both want to be dominant, then the bond will fail.

Bonds In Trouble
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Moody Guinea Pigs: Depression, Bullying, Aggression, Stress, Fear and Antisocial Behaviour

Okay so today we’re trying out Baby and Gumball together. It’s clear that Gumball should’ve been named Napoleon or something because he’s determined to be the boss of the world lol they’re doing well i think? Lots of chittering and mounting from both. Super stinky. Gumball is the only one who has managed (and been persistent enough) to successfully mount and do his business, so to speak. Baby is much more focused on trying to barber the long fur on Gumball’s rear end. He’s gotten a few nips in here and there. One thing that I’m seeing that is VERY unlike Gumball while he’s with Darwin is him lying down while in a play area with another pig. Actually they’ve BOTH laid down here and there. It’s odd for BOTH of them. Despite all the noises, they’re actually laying down near one another. Gumball and Darwin occasionally do this when they’re both tired but I’ve never seen Gumball chill out while out with another piggy. This has to be a good sign, right?

 

[PiggleParade]

That’s Gumball under the cardboard and Baby behind him - ive never ever seen him chill like this!

 

[PiggleParade]

One more question: if they seem to be mostly getting along, should I put them back together in a newly cleaned cage or put them where they were originally and build up to putting them together more permanently?

 

[Siikibam]

Once you have bonded you shouldn’t separate them. If you’re unsure you can leave them in their bonding area overnight. Otherwise if it’s been several hours then they can move into their new digs.

 

[PiggleParade]

Awesome thank you!

 

[PiggleParade]

The boys have been together all day and I still can't tell if they're happy to hang out together...or exhausted by the whole thing. At the moment, they're both laying down next to each other. This was preceded by a lot of chasing, chittering, rumble-strutting, humping, and open-mouthed head raises.

These two are tricky. They're both very sassy. I'm starting to wonder if Gumball will ever let up on the humping -- he is relentless. Baby is a tough cookie...but he also seemed more willing to move on from the whole process of asserting dominance hours ago. He didn't fight Gumball for that long when it came to being mounted -- he leans more dominant but I don't think he cared so much that he wanted to keep battling it out. Gumball would mount him and after about an hour, he'd just go on eating escarole. The problem is that Gumball just keeps going. Every time Baby would go to play or lay down or eat some hay, Gumball would come back rumbling in his face and try to mount him again. I know that's normal...but only to a point, right? Baby was ready to lay down and relax together but Gumball just keeps going.

Just a few minutes ago, they actually amped it up to an open-mouth challenge. Baby is getting sick of the non-stop challenges. Before this, they really hadn't gotten to the point of baring their teeth at each other. Rather than relaxing with time, they got MORE irritated...

...and yet they're now laying down near one another? I know this takes time so they're still together for now.

Question: if this DOESN'T work out, do I reintroduce Gumball and Darwin as if they were never together...or do I just put them back together like they were before? The cage they shared hasn't been cleaned out -- it still has Gumball's scent all over it -- and Darwin isn't exactly aware of what's happening at the moment, though I'm sure he's wondering where his cagemate is.

Also: Do you think Darwin voluntarily hopping in to see Anais should be taken as a positive sign that he's willing to try out being cagemates? Their issues seem to be linked solely to Gumball's aggression to Anais and not perpetrated by Darwin himself -- that is, as the saying goes, three is a crowd and Darwin wasn't going to go against his buddy Gumball. I'd also thought that Darwin had disliked Anais, but overall they're relaxed with one another. Anais' fear-aggression is definitely the issue between them. Darwin continuously chooses to pop over and visit on his own and after the initial surprise, they sit and eat together without issue. It's strange but maybe promising?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Gumball and baby

Chasing, mounting to a point is entirely normal. Something you need to let them get on with.
Excessive mounting, chasing, to the point of not letting the other piggy eat or rest eventually becomes bullying. One of two things usually happens - the bullied piggy becomes withdrawn, depressed and potentially loses weight. Or, gets so fed up with it piggy’s to the point that the bullied piggy fights back, injuries are caused, bond is broken.

if you are going to out gumball and Darwin back together, then you will need to do so on neutral territory to reintroduce them.

If you think Darwin would be happier with anais, than all you can do is try.

Do be aware that bonding is a stressful experience so you need to come to conclusions about who gets on best and not keep trying them. They may need a few days to calm back down before trying to bond/rebond, so if you try too much you could need multiple separate cages to let them calm in before trying to bond again at a later time.

 

[PiggleParade]

Gumball and baby

Chasing, mounting to a point is entirely normal. Something you need to let them get on with.
Excessive mounting, chasing, to the point of not letting the other piggy eat or rest eventually becomes bullying. One of two things usually happens - the bullied piggy becomes withdrawn, depressed and potentially loses weight. Or, gets so fed up with it piggy’s to the point that the bullied piggy fights back, injuries are caused, bond is broken.

if you are going to out gumball and Darwin back together, then you will need to do so on neutral territory to reintroduce them.

If you think Darwin would be happier with anais, than all you can do is try.

Do be aware that bonding is a stressful experience so you need to come to conclusions about who gets on best and not keep trying them. They may need a few days to calm back down before trying to bond/rebond, so if you try too much you could need multiple separate cages to let them calm in before trying to bond again at a later time.

Thank you for the advice! They seem to be calming down a bit - they've dozed and woken up and chittered a little before mellowing out again. I definitely don't want to keep hopping them around.

I've been concerned for Darwin for a little while -- he seems to love his brother (he panics when he can't find him and calls out for him and runs to him when he spots him) -- but lately he's also seemed fed up and frustrated and a bit thinner. I hate splitting him from his brother if they really are happy together, but Darwin hopping in to see Anais instead, even with the possibility of a scuffle if he spooks Anais inadvertently, has made me think he isn't as happy as he could be. Why else would he choose to go over there? I've never put him in there -- he has chosen to continuously hop over on his own. The real shock is that they've been mostly fine with one another -- they're wary but end up being like, "Oh...oh all right...I guess we'll just eat some hay then..."

I also hate having Anais and Baby stuck all alone. I'm keeping my fingers super super super crossed that Baby and Gumball continue in a positive way and that maybe Darwin and Anais are actually good for one another because they're both more mild mannered. Goodness boars are so complex! LOL They're so much trickier to work out than you'd ever expect from boy animals -- I've exclusively had boy pets for years and they're generally so buddy-buddy with one another...not pigs! lol

 

[Piggies&buns]

If he isn’t happy with his brother and seems to be losing weight (please do carry out routine weekly weight checks throughout life) then things may not be rosy with them.

It’s only tricky when there is incompatibility, otherwise keeping a bonded boar pair is perfectly harmonious. I have a boar pair myself. I come from primarily keeping rabbits where keeping a buck pair is generally not possible - its much easier to keep a bonded boar piggy pair.

 

[PiggleParade]

Okay so this morning the boys are doing well together. They’re generally pretty mellow and just hanging out.

So now we’re giving Darwin and Anaïs a real go.

Anaïs has MAJOR fear-aggression issues that I’m entirely to blame for. I’m praying that he and Darwin can expand on their impromptu hangout sessions together and get over the initial bump. Any tips for dealing with fear-aggressive boars? I see a lot of threads about sows but have had trouble finding anything about boars.

 

[PiggleParade]

Okay so we’re doing good - the first neutral ground spot wasn't working - it was too close to where the other two are hanging out and Darwin could definitely hear his brother in there. I don’t think the floor was clean enough either and they could smell the other boys on it. So they’re in a new spot.

Every so often, Anaïs and Darwin come close to each other and the rumbling starts. In general, Anaïs bolts - he’s clearly terrified of other boys. At first, Darwin was pursuing him sideways with his butt pointing towards him, trying to mark him, I'm guessing.

 

[PiggleParade]

Ah i hit reply before I meant to - Anaïs is terrified and defensive. Mounting isn’t the go-to with these two. It seems Darwin would potentially be the boss without any major displays of aggression if Anais would let him.

 

[PiggleParade]

Okay nevermind - Anaïs was getting increasingly tired and wanted to lay down. Darwin wanted to establish dominance. I think the combo of fear and sleepiness was too much for Anaïs and they ended up locked in a pig tornado type brawl. Blood drawn, hair flying. They’re separated now. I don’t think Anaïs can handle bonding.

 

[Poogiemyqueen]

great job for the details and updates. I have 3 bonded boars, they get along so much they sleep together cozy up touching, even with many other houses, beds and guineadad pockets to be in. It really boils down to personalities! I see everywhere, BOARS IN A PAIR ONLY! all the time and that's just not true 100%. I've had girls that would just see each other for a second and flip! it's about 1 top pig. rest follow. Bonding is stressful on pigs, moving them into the new cage can start up the whole thing again. In a few days the mounting, rumbling and all that will dial down to almost nothing as they get to know each other. You never know until you try. any gender bonding is risky not just boars. So long you accept the out come of a fight, try if you believe its worth a shot. Just because they are boars doesn't mean you cant have a group, find few people that have boar groups, yeah its rare but make sure to accept what's best for the piggies. hang in there (:

 

[PiggleParade]

great job for the details and updates. I have 3 bonded boars, they get along so much they sleep together cozy up touching, even with many other houses, beds and guineadad pockets to be in. It really boils down to personalities! I see everywhere, BOARS IN A PAIR ONLY! all the time and that's just not true 100%. I've had girls that would just see each other for a second and flip! it's about 1 top pig. rest follow. Bonding is stressful on pigs, moving them into the new cage can start up the whole thing again. In a few days the mounting, rumbling and all that will dial down to almost nothing as they get to know each other. You never know until you try. any gender bonding is risky not just boars. So long you accept the out come of a fight, try if you believe its worth a shot. Just because they are boars doesn't mean you cant have a group, find few people that have boar groups, yeah its rare but make sure to accept what's best for the piggies. hang in there (:

Thank you so much for this! Anaïs seems mostly okay being on his own - I think I’m more sad for him than he is for himself lol I’ll definitely give it a try with Darwin and the other two, though - he might be okay by himself but it will nag at me if I don’t give him a try with the other two. They’ve all gotten along all right in the past - Baby seems to be keeping Gumball in check lol I’d thought they’d be too bossy for one another but it might keep them more balanced than not. We’ll see! For tonight I’ll let Darwin have a break - I think he’s definitely wondering where his brother has gone but I don’t want to overwhelm him. I’ll definitely update when I try the three together!

 

[Poogiemyqueen]

Thank you so much for this! Anaïs seems mostly okay being on his own - I think I’m more sad for him than he is for himself lol I’ll definitely give it a try with Darwin and the other two, though - he might be okay by himself but it will nag at me if I don’t give him a try with the other two. They’ve all gotten along all right in the past - Baby seems to be keeping Gumball in check lol I’d thought they’d be too bossy for one another but it might keep them more balanced than not. We’ll see! For tonight I’ll let Darwin have a break - I think he’s definitely wondering where his brother has gone but I don’t want to overwhelm him. I’ll definitely update when I try the three together!

Yeah no stress! seems like they just need to let the dust settle. if they arent lunging and ready to go for the kill just normal piggie stuff its hard to watch but it will pass in few day, in a week. I wish you the best! sounds like you are doing all the right sets towards making sure nobody gets hurt, but if you want them to be together all of them try to do one loooooooonnnnngggg session. let them be the chasing and humping WILL stop once they have a week together. no worries, just get a yummy latte and just hang by the playpen, I let mine bond for 8 hours and poof after a week all humping and chasing stoped. now just a ramdom rumble here or there besides that they snack on hay all 3 in the hay box. I'll post a pick later

 

[Piggies&buns]

If you are going to try three together then do accept that it can break all bonds, so you can end up with three singles.
You also need the cage to be considerably larger - three square metres/36 square feet is the recommendation to allow enough territory for each.
Failed boar trios are the thing we are most contacted about in the behaviour section. Very rarely do we find a functioning boar trio, so its great for anybody who does have them but they generally don’t work out. Just something to always bear in mind.
If there is a furball fight, then don’t try those particular piggies together again.

 

[PiggleParade]

So I tried all three together. Oof. No go.

Gumball’s neurotic obsession with being the boss was over the top and Darwin, who was starting to push back a teeny bit even before I split them up, wasn’t having it.

That, of course, meant he was all worked up when Baby came near. Baby, just like he’s been with Gumball, seemed to be saying, “whatever, man, I don’t want to get into it, just stay out of my face and we won’t have a problem”, but Gumball’s persistent badgering of both him and Darwin just made it impossible for either of them to even look at each other in a civil manner. He harassed them both so much that they repeatedly ended up annoyed and nose to nose as they tried to run away from Gumball.

Darwin got so fed up with it all that he went in for an all out brawl with baby. Some fur flew and that was it - no more. I didn’t want anything to get screwed up further with Gumball and Baby so we intervened then and there, before they could escalate with one another, and each one when to an individual in the family for some calm down time.

Thankfully Gumball and Baby are still okay with each other. Gumball is still the most crazed little megalomaniac but Baby has held his own just enough to send the message that he’s fine with Gumball being the boss but won’t put up with constant nonsense from him.

I, of course, feel overwhelmingly guilty and sad for Darwin. I know my reasons for trying this were based in logic - he was choosing to hop into a cage with a pig who occasionally bit him rather than stay in the space with his brother - Gumball’s persistent humping and harassment of him had to be why. But I’m a sentiment sort so I’m heartbroken on his behalf. Even with all the signs of distress, he also seemed to seek out Gumball for reassurance and would run to him when he saw him. It’s entirely possible that I’ve mistaken those behaviors as affection when, for pigs, they mean something else entirely.

Despite my feelings of guilt and heartache for Darwin…it seems like this is probably a better scenario for the moment. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen Gumball lay down and relax next to another pig the way he’s been doing with Baby - he’s always been too busy sticking his nose in Darwin’s business and trying to nab whatever he has. I was sure these two hot-heads would be terrible together but (knock on wood) they seem to be strangely suited for one another.

One note: the only reason I did all of this in the span of a few days was because of the fact that I’d have to reconfigure cages multiple times otherwise and I wanted to keep them from moving houses repeatedly on top of everything else.

 

[Free Ranger]

That side-on stalking behaviour you described by Darwin is like when my Zara attacked gentle George. He was a lot bigger and weightier (and a lot more frightened!) and it reminded me very much of when cats do it to make themselves look as big as possible. George backed right off but she still went for him and chased him round and round, and nipped him on the backside! I think it wasn't going to work between them and they'd rather be apart.

It's possible that Darwin was jumping into Anais' cage to have a bit of a go at being top pig. When I had my two pairs in the back garden my 3rd sow Flora broke into Zara and Louise's run - not because she was bored with George and wanted female company, no, she went looking for trouble. Everysow lost a tuft of fur that day!

 

[PiggleParade]

That side-on stalking behaviour you described by Darwin is like when my Zara attacked gentle George. He was a lot bigger and weightier (and a lot more frightened!) and it reminded me very much of when cats do it to make themselves look as big as possible. George backed right off but she still went for him and chased him round and round, and nipped him on the backside! I think it wasn't going to work between them and they'd rather be apart.

It's possible that Darwin was jumping into Anais' cage to have a bit of a go at being top pig. When I had my two pairs in the back garden my 3rd sow Flora broke into Zara and Louise's run - not because she was bored with George and wanted female company, no, she went looking for trouble. Everysow lost a tuft of fur that day!

Oh my gosh I didn’t even think of that! You’re right - he may have been looking for trouble! Gumball is such a persistent pain in the neck about being dominant and anais is so clearly afraid. Little Darwin, my sweet boy, may actually have wanted a scuffle! Lol these boys are so much more complicated than I’d ever expected

 

[Piggies&buns]

Oh my gosh I didn’t even think of that! You’re right - he may have been looking for trouble! Gumball is such a persistent pain in the neck about being dominant and anais is so clearly afraid. Little Darwin, my sweet boy, may actually have wanted a scuffle! Lol these boys are so much more complicated than I’d ever expected

Its all too easy to misinterpret behaviours. It’s only when you know, that you know! For example, two piggies are separated but they lay side by side at the divider. That can be seen as a nice thing, that they actually want to be together, but in actual fact it’s often a hostile territory marking exercise

 

[PiggleParade]

Its all too easy to misinterpret behaviours. It’s only when you know, that you know! For example, two piggies are separated but they lay side by side at the divider. That can be seen as a nice thing, that they actually want to be together, but in actual fact it’s often a hostile territory marking exercise

Lol that’s a really good point! It’s so tricky too because their behaviors towards humans can be so different than how they treat one another. The main thing that is lingering in my head is Darwin’s habit of calling out for his brother when he couldn’t find him or running to him and scurrying under him when he found him - I can’t help but see it as him genuinely liking Gumball. At the same time, Gumball could never just let him be in those moments - if Darwin scooted one way, Gumball would turn that way, too, shove him out of the way, and nip at him…maybe Darwin was actually communicating that he was undermining Gumball’s top billing…

 

[Poogiemyqueen]

So I tried all three together. Oof. No go.

Gumball’s neurotic obsession with being the boss was over the top and Darwin, who was starting to push back a teeny bit even before I split them up, wasn’t having it.

That, of course, meant he was all worked up when Baby came near. Baby, just like he’s been with Gumball, seemed to be saying, “whatever, man, I don’t want to get into it, just stay out of my face and we won’t have a problem”, but Gumball’s persistent badgering of both him and Darwin just made it impossible for either of them to even look at each other in a civil manner. He harassed them both so much that they repeatedly ended up annoyed and nose to nose as they tried to run away from Gumball.

Darwin got so fed up with it all that he went in for an all out brawl with baby. Some fur flew and that was it - no more. I didn’t want anything to get screwed up further with Gumball and Baby so we intervened then and there, before they could escalate with one another, and each one when to an individual in the family for some calm down time.

Thankfully Gumball and Baby are still okay with each other. Gumball is still the most crazed little megalomaniac but Baby has held his own just enough to send the message that he’s fine with Gumball being the boss but won’t put up with constant nonsense from him.

I, of course, feel overwhelmingly guilty and sad for Darwin. I know my reasons for trying this were based in logic - he was choosing to hop into a cage with a pig who occasionally bit him rather than stay in the space with his brother - Gumball’s persistent humping and harassment of him had to be why. But I’m a sentiment sort so I’m heartbroken on his behalf. Even with all the signs of distress, he also seemed to seek out Gumball for reassurance and would run to him when he saw him. It’s entirely possible that I’ve mistaken those behaviors as affection when, for pigs, they mean something else entirely.

Despite my feelings of guilt and heartache for Darwin…it seems like this is probably a better scenario for the moment. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen Gumball lay down and relax next to another pig the way he’s been doing with Baby - he’s always been too busy sticking his nose in Darwin’s business and trying to nab whatever he has. I was sure these two hot-heads would be terrible together but (knock on wood) they seem to be strangely suited for one another.

One note: the only reason I did all of this in the span of a few days was because of the fact that I’d have to reconfigure cages multiple times otherwise and I wanted to keep them from moving houses repeatedly on top of everything else.

how old is everybody? I wouldnt feel bad, pigs are like people as in they like who they like and dont like. think of it this way, you gave it a shot. It's like you moving in with 2 other roomies and you and thr other person dont see eye to eye. I think you handled everything like a champion