Bonded Boars - Sudden Fight? Please Help!

Zelsi

Zelsi

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I have two boars Monty (2.5yrs) and Simba (1yr) who I bonded last month. Thread here:

Bonding Two Boars - Advice Needed!

Since the bonding they did get a lot better, ate together, slept together etc. with Monty being the dominant one.

Over the past week there was more chattering and nosing off than usual.

This evening I was checking on them and Simba had blood on his mouth - a small cut on his lip. It had dried up so must have happened earlier in the day. I've separated them in the same cage with a divider down the middle and will take Simba to the vet tomorrow (he is eating and the injury is not life threatening so as the vet is closed today we will take him tomorrow when they are available).

My concern is their future together. As blood has been drawn I suspect that they can't live as a pair any more.

While I want to try them together again, perhaps on the floor first, my worry is that they are stressed and it's over now any way.

Any advice would be most appreciated, for the future of both the piggies.

Thank you!
 
How did they seem together when you found the injury? Could you sense tension in the air? Was there any teeth chattering? I ask as it's not uncommon for injury to the lip to be caused by a miss swipe of the foot for example. If there are no other injuries or signs of aggression I would be tempted to try them together again on mutual territory and keep a very close eye on them.

A similar thing happened between two of my sows but all four pigs were sat in different corners teeth chattering and you could have cut the tension with a knife. I separated into two pairs but several months later when an elderly one passed away I managed to rebond the two sows so they were living together with the neutered male.
 
Lady Kelly said:
How did they seem together when you found the injury? Could you sense tension in the air? Was there any teeth chattering? I ask as it's not uncommon for injury to the lip to be caused by a miss swipe of the foot for example. If there are no other injuries or signs of aggression I would be tempted to try them together again on mutual territory and keep a very close eye on them.

A similar thing happened between two of my sows but all four pigs were sat in different corners teeth chattering and you could have cut the tension with a knife. I separated into two pairs but several months later when an elderly one passed away I managed to rebond the two sows so they were living together with the neutered male.
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Hi Kelly

My mum heard a high pitched squeal this morning but only told me this evening which is why I checked him thoroughly quite late.

They were chattering a lot and were very tense today and yesterday. It may have been because Christmas can be hectic... They weren't going near each other and were sleeping opposite sides of the cage. They did share food and a treat yesterday.

I really suspect Monty bit him. Tomorrow at the vet we will know more I'm sure.

I am thinking of setting them up in a large c&c cage with a divider for them to live together but separated. I just feel bad because they are so young and that would force them to live like that. It's a tough situation but I appreciate any advice I can get!

Also... Simba is 1 year old so he is a teenager going through puberty. Maybe this is causing problems.
 
To be honest I've never had boar pairs so not the best to advise on whether they are likely to go back together again lol hopefully someone else can help
 
Lady Kelly said:
To be honest I've never had boar pairs so not the best to advise on whether they are likely to go back together again lol hopefully someone else can help
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Might you know of other staff members you can tag? I find sometimes it's hard to get replies on threads and I'm in a tough situation with my pets. Any help would be amazing!
 
I'm not sure on staff members having boar pairs but I've just seen @Jaycey online who is experienced with boars and perhaps can share some advice
 
@Zelsi I've only ever had boars so I might be able to help out.

You might be lucky and that one tussle was it. Sometimes they just need that one argument to work out who is Top Pig and then they're fine.

I always try to give them as big a cage as I can, especially when they're younger, a 2x6 if possible.

I try to limit their reasons to argue so I give them two of everything. Two food bowls, water water bottles, two hideys, two hay piles.

Usually when I'm bonding them I try to start the process on a Friday evening after work, or early Saturday morning. Then I can be there with them for as long as needed and watch.

My current two were nightmares at first but they've been living together for about 2 years now without issue, so it's always possible that they could live together happily.
 
Jaycey said:
@Zelsi I've only ever had boars so I might be able to help out.

You might be lucky and that one tussle was it. Sometimes they just need that one argument to work out who is Top Pig and then they're fine.

I always try to give them as big a cage as I can, especially when they're younger, a 2x6 if possible.

I try to limit their reasons to argue so I give them two of everything. Two food bowls, water water bottles, two hideys, two hay piles.

Usually when I'm bonding them I try to start the process on a Friday evening after work, or early Saturday morning. Then I can be there with them for as long as needed and watch.

My current two were nightmares at first but they've been living together for about 2 years now without issue, so it's always possible that they could live together happily.
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Hi Jaycey

I'm going to keep them in their same cage but with a divider down the middle for tonight, they seem a lot calmer and happier now that they are apart. It's quite late as well so probably best to give them some space until the vet has determined the cause and extent of Simba's cut.

They were living together for over a month (since the bonding), sharing 1 bottle 1 bowl with 2-exit hidies quite happily. The past week the chattering and aggressive behaviour worsened, possibly due to the Christmas period / stress etc.

You mentioned it may have just been a small tussle, perhaps a misunderstanding and the older one was too rough, but I can't be sure.

It's difficult because they did live together without hurting each other for a month! Now suddenly Monty has bitten Simba's lip and drawn blood.

I can remove their separator easily but I am scared of a fight, since the older one is clearly capable of drawing blood.

Would it be a bad idea to separate them and restart the bonding again from scratch and if successful let them live together?

Alternatively / if unsuccessful I can give them a large C&C cage with a divider for them to talk, see, smell each other but not hurt one another so they have some company. I do have some concerns over how good this is for them socially, is it really enough?

It's a tough situation, I just want the best for them. Sorry for the long reply!
 
@Zelsi Keeping them separated by a divider for now is completely fine. They can see each other and interact, and you can try to bond them again if/when you feel comfortable and have the time.

It's possible that they could still live together, it's less likely seeing as blood was drawn but it could be possible. One of my two has a deformed lip from a fight they had when I first got them. It was a very nasty bite. I had them separated by a divider for a while, but the one with the bite wasn't happy. So I tried to rebond them, and it worked.

Some pigs are perfectly happy living side by side as they can still interact. Only time will tell. See how they go. If it doesn't work then you can think about what to do next. You could either adopt another pig, or have one or both neutered to live with a girl.
 
Jaycey said:
@Zelsi Keeping them separated by a divider for now is completely fine. They can see each other and interact, and you can try to bond them again if/when you feel comfortable and have the time.

It's possible that they could still live together, it's less likely seeing as blood was drawn but it could be possible. One of my two has a deformed lip from a fight they had when I first got them. It was a very nasty bite. I had them separated by a divider for a while, but the one with the bite wasn't happy. So I tried to rebond them, and it worked.

Some pigs are perfectly happy living side by side as they can still interact. Only time will tell. See how they go. If it doesn't work then you can think about what to do next. You could either adopt another pig, or have one or both neutered to live with a girl.
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This is re-assuring thank you. I think that's the best thing to do. Let them have some space with the divider, restart the bonding when I'm around and can monitor them closely and see how it goes. Worst comes to worse I can always give them a nice big cage with a divider so they can live happily.

One thing I was wondering is... the younger one is a teenager probably going through puberty so this might be part of the problem. They may suddenly get along once he's a little older, so can live with the divider for a while before I give them another go.
 
Hi, I've got a trio of boars (the ones in my avatar), and there have been a few tiffs in the 10 months or so that I've had them. The snippiness has always been between Groucho and Chicco, and quite soon after I got them I came home to Chicco with a small cut on his face. The fight (if it was one) had calmed down, so I didn't separate them. Chicco has pretty much been the boss since, and there's been no more blood. Groucho and Chicco also got quite aggressive with each other last week - I foolishly allowed them to see my other boars through the bars which seemed to prompt Chicco to show them what a tough guy he is. On that occasion I draped a towel across until they calmed down, then threw in some pellets, and again they've been fine since. Mine are all right in the middle of their teenage hormones, but have lots of space to get away from each other. I would try them again after a wee while, but keep a good close eye on them. I'm quite a calm, matter of fact person, so if the group fails, it fails, but I don't let myself get hung up on it, or upset when there's a setback - I feel that somehow my calmness keeps them calmer.....or maybe that's just my imagination.
 
Reenie said:
Hi, I've got a trio of boars (the ones in my avatar), and there have been a few tiffs in the 10 months or so that I've had them. The snippiness has always been between Groucho and Chicco, and quite soon after I got them I came home to Chicco with a small cut on his face. The fight (if it was one) had calmed down, so I didn't separate them. Chicco has pretty much been the boss since, and there's been no more blood. Groucho and Chicco also got quite aggressive with each other last week - I foolishly allowed them to see my other boars through the bars which seemed to prompt Chicco to show them what a tough guy he is. On that occasion I draped a towel across until they calmed down, then threw in some pellets, and again they've been fine since. Mine are all right in the middle of their teenage hormones, but have lots of space to get away from each other. I would try them again after a wee while, but keep a good close eye on them. I'm quite a calm, matter of fact person, so if the group fails, it fails, but I don't let myself get hung up on it, or upset when there's a setback - I feel that somehow my calmness keeps them calmer.....or maybe that's just my imagination.
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Hmmm.. Lots of different advice. I guess I can try them together.

From what I read I just thought that blood drawn means it's game over.

The thing is I did say this happened in the morning but I found out and separated them in the evening, so during the day they didn't fight again or hurt one another. So it does seem like an isolated incident.

Hopefully putting the divider in won't ruin their bonding though. Do you think I should remove it? My worry is I can't watch them over night....
 
@Zelsi Sorry I didn't reply last night, I had to go to bed ready for work today.

Putting in a divider for a little while won't spol any chance of getting them to live together. They can still interact with each other and more importantly you know they will both be okay and not able to fight.

My two lived side by side for about 4 months or so (I think) after their fight and they are now together again.

Their ages can affect them, like you said, teenagers are more argumentative. Years ago I had 2 boys who lived together perfectly for about a year, then they hated each other for another year or so. Then they went back together again fine. Boys!

Honestly, they'll be fine for a while living side by side. Until you're ready to give it another try.
 
Zelsi said:
Hmmm.. Lots of different advice. I guess I can try them together.

From what I read I just thought that blood drawn means it's game over.

The thing is I did say this happened in the morning but I found out and separated them in the evening, so during the day they didn't fight again or hurt one another. So it does seem like an isolated incident.

Hopefully putting the divider in won't ruin their bonding though. Do you think I should remove it? My worry is I can't watch them over night....
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Sorry, it IS a bit confusing. For me, the relevant bit is that, like myself, you didn't actually see the fight, so don't know if the injury was deliberate or just a bad aim. If blood is drawn in a serious fight, then there really is very little chance of it ever working, but from your description they don't seem to be quite there, so there is a chance for them to work it out. It may still fail at some point but I think it's worth hanging in there. I hope it works out for your guys, and like @Jaycey says, you don't have to put them back together right away, wait until you've time to see it through, and you're ready for it.
 
My opinion is I would separate them, if they are showing their teeth & going at each other. If you put the boars together, why set him up for a possible fight. I would have thought both of them would be uncomfortable & keep looking behind them. I've never been able to bond boars so lve separated them quickly. In the end I aquired 2 girls had the boars neutered & they had a sow each. If you are going to do this please don't put 2 boars & Sows together they Will fight it's 1 to 1. You do have to wait 6 weeks before a boar is safe with a sow.
You now have differing views & it would be up to you which you would like to choice.
Everyone is right.
 
If you decide to get them back together in the future, maybe make sure they both have a bowl each, water bowl each, a bed each etc.
 
Hi All

Thank you for all your replies. I have been trying to decide what's best for them and at this point in time they are together in the big cage.

It's been disinfected and just has newspaper and hay in it, with 2 bottles and 2 bowls (spread out either side of the cage). Nothing else.

At the time of writing they are cuddling in the corner but earlier there was some chattering and chasing. Monty has a tenancy to put his mouth right next to Simba's and nip him, I don't know why he does this because Simba is incredibly submissive and does nothing to cause this aggression. This might be how he was hurt, by Monty misjudging his nip(s). As @Reenie said, I didn't see what happened in the morning.

As I said I only found out about the injury last night and it happened in the morning. So between the morning and evening yesterday they were together and did not fight or hurt each other further.

I am taking Simba to the vet in an hour, and will bring them both together (to avoid splitting them up too much) just to get the cut checked out.

My plan is to keep them in their very bland large cage for a few weeks, and get a large c&c cage for them to live in. This might help a lot with 2 boars if they have more space.

Worst comes to worse I will put a divider in and let them live side by side for a longer period of time before trying again, thank you @Jaycey for re-assuring me about the dividers!

I really do think these two can get along, they just need more time (and maybe more space!)
 
Just to let you know that the vet says Simba's cut is a bite but it has scabbed over and will heal on its own - no sign of infection so no drugs given for that. They've been weighed and are both fine too!

They've been together all day so we're hoping that they just need more time. Like I said I will be getting a large c&c cage (hopefully a 2x6 or 3x6!) for them to have more space. Their current cage is pretty large already but I have the room, and the more space they have the better! Thank you all for your advice.

I know a lot of people say that blood drawn means it's all over - but it might not be for these two. I think every piggy is different and we will just have to wait and see...
 
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