• Discussions taking place within this forum are intended for the purpose of assisting you in discussing options with your vet. Any other use of advice given here is done so at your risk, is solely your responsibility and not that of this forum or its owner. Before posting it is your responsibility you abide by this Statement

Dying Pig?

Bell@

Junior Guinea Pig
Joined
Jul 9, 2022
Messages
18
Reaction score
24
Points
175
Location
Australia
Hi!
I’m reaching out on here again since last time you guys helped me save my Guinea pigs!
They were getting constant bladder stones and the vet wanted to put them down - turns out their water was high in calcium and I needed to filter it. They are now 5 1/2, they live on predominantly straw, cucumbers, capsicum, thistles etc (they’re get sick from some foods, like grass). We’ve had a thing with their grain having soy protein which was causing fatty lumps (a different vet wanted to put one down bc it was potentially cancer). We moved past all that but the pig who didn’t have the fatty lumps recently had an actual tumour removed- it was quite large. She’s always been a bit more delicate too. Surgery was a few months ago and went well. She was really happy after. She wouldn’t even take the painkillers after day two. I’ve noticed lately tho she cries for food like normal (they’re very vocal pigs), I feed them, she takes her portions - and doesn’t eat them. There’s been a lot of uneaten food in the cage and the other one has DOUBLED in size. I pulled her out last night and she readily accepted painkillers with no fuss. She wouldn’t eat from me but she’s never been a fan of just accepting food unless it’s sweet. Today she has bad breath, similar to when a previous pig was dying. She took painkillers today also. She seems to eat a tiny bit of grain, but won’t touch her usual favourite veg. She pretends to eat, nibbling with her lips, and ate a TINY piece of lettuce for nearly ten minutes. She did a weird motion with her head a few times (didn’t look like typical gagging but mbe it was gagging?). Her teeth look beautiful, no visible mouth sores. She has diarrhoea and has lost significant weight. I’ve been to the vet so much lately and we keep “fixing” their problems (they’re sisters). I’ve never had such sick g pigs before, I love them so much but they’re super high maintenance and I’ve spent many thousands on them at vets. Is it possible she has more tumours, mbe in her throat or tummy? I don’t know where she could have picked an infection up from, she lives inside and I keep everything pretty clean. Starting some fresh parasite treatment now. Is there anything else I could try, maybe mushing her food and syringe feeding? Any advice and recommendations would be very appreciated! Thank you for reading, sorry for the long story :) Pic is of sick pig a few years ago ❤️
 

Attachments

  • IMG_6290.webp
    IMG_6290.webp
    85 KB · Views: 1
Hi

HUGS

Please step in with syringe feeding support asap but make sure that she can actually still swallow. So please take it very slowly in little bits and see whether it goes down or comes up again. If she is no longer

Please ask your vet as soon as you can be seen to check the back teeth (premolars and molars) and back of the mouth for overgrowth, potential sores at the back and for something stuck at the back or a swelling at the back of the throat that is not necessarily visible from outside (that is how I had to euthanise one of mine) or for a throat infection that swelled the throat shut (again, not visible from the outside, which happened to another one - the vet did a post mortem for himself, with my permission to make sure that there no cancer or something stuck in play), as your girl is obviously still wanting to eat but for some reason can't. Please also be aware that a blockage can happen at any point in the digestive tract between the mouth and the anus. If you see nonstop salivating, then this means that saliva, which is nonstop produced in the mouth is no longer able to pass through and you are dealing with a blockage somewhere.

Without direct access we cannot comment further. Uneaten food is always a big warning sign that something major is not right. Since three quarters of the daily food intake is hay and grass and any veg, pellets, forage and treat all together only replace the supplementary role of wild forage, your girl has in fact very likely eaten a lot less than you think. Hence the change in size.

Please check around both girls' ribs for their BMI and switch to weighing daily first thing is the morning on your kitchen scales for their food intake. Check the other girl for potential bloating as well; 'ballooning' is one of my trigger words that a medical issue could be behind it.

You may find these links here very helpful. They contain all the practical how-to tips as well as some very important advice and information.
Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support

All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

How to Improvise Feeding Support in an Emergency

Wiebke's Guide to Tummy Trouble

Emergency and Crisis Care as well as Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

My fingers are firmly crossed.

PS: Both the Emergency Care link as well as the Syringe Feeding guide contain chapters for when things are passing or have past the tipping point should you need that since to my knowledge, Australian vets are not open over the weekend and there are no out-of-hours services.
Here is our full-on guide if it comes to the worst, which I sincerely hope not: A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
 
I hope she’s ok. Sending healing vibes. Good luck at the vets. ❤️
 
Hi

HUGS

Please step in with syringe feeding support asap but make sure that she can actually still swallow. So please take it very slowly in little bits and see whether it goes down or comes up again. If she is no longer

Please ask your vet as soon as you can be seen to check the back teeth (premolars and molars) and back of the mouth for overgrowth, potential sores at the back and for something stuck at the back or a swelling at the back of the throat that is not necessarily visible from outside (that is how I had to euthanise one of mine) or for a throat infection that swelled the throat shut (again, not visible from the outside, which happened to another one - the vet did a post mortem for himself, with my permission to make sure that there no cancer or something stuck in play), as your girl is obviously still wanting to eat but for some reason can't. Please also be aware that a blockage can happen at any point in the digestive tract between the mouth and the anus. If you see nonstop salivating, then this means that saliva, which is nonstop produced in the mouth is no longer able to pass through and you are dealing with a blockage somewhere.

Without direct access we cannot comment further. Uneaten food is always a big warning sign that something major is not right. Since three quarters of the daily food intake is hay and grass and any veg, pellets, forage and treat all together only replace the supplementary role of wild forage, your girl has in fact very likely eaten a lot less than you think. Hence the change in size.

Please check around both girls' ribs for their BMI and switch to weighing daily first thing is the morning on your kitchen scales for their food intake. Check the other girl for potential bloating as well; 'ballooning' is one of my trigger words that a medical issue could be behind it.

You may find these links here very helpful. They contain all the practical how-to tips as well as some very important advice and information.
Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support

All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

How to Improvise Feeding Support in an Emergency

Wiebke's Guide to Tummy Trouble

Emergency and Crisis Care as well as Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

My fingers are firmly crossed.

PS: Both the Emergency Care link as well as the Syringe Feeding guide contain chapters for when things are passing or have past the tipping point should you need that since to my knowledge, Australian vets are not open over the weekend and there are no out-of-hours services.
Here is our full-on guide if it comes to the worst, which I sincerely hope not: A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
Thank you so much! This was very helpful 🙏 It’s night here and nothing is open (also haven’t seen any critical care type foods for sale anywhere), so I improvised using the article you sent - pellets and I smooshed some capsicum in there for extra vitamin C and taste - she licked little bits from the syringe and even took a little from the spoon. She also ate a little lettuce and baby spinach yay! So food seems to go down, she just doesn’t want to eat much or chew anything super hard. I’m going to put her in a separate cage tomorrow so the other doesn’t eat all her food/stress her and I can see how much she’s actually eating. Her coat is still shiny but she is quite thin. She’s always been smaller but it’s quite alarming - and you’re correct, the vet is closed on weekends here. She’s always pulled fur out, ever since I left her at the vet for tests when she was 2yrs, so I don’t know if she’s pulled her fur because she’s sore or just her nervous habit. As for ballooning, the other g pig has fatty lumps that apparently cause pain/discomfort (hence why I have painkillers at hand, she has it daily) in her tummy and is also quite fat. She seems to have a tummy upset but she gets that regularly (old age? Also loses her eyesight time to time. Milk thistle seems to help tho), vet is kind but doesn’t seem to have any suggestions. She loves eating and her coat is shiny so vet is satisfied she’s still happy, just gotta be careful what she eats (like no grass, she gets a kind of colic thing). Going to reassess them both in the morning, sort cages out and try and feed the sick piggie some more syringe mush. Thank you again, I really really appreciate it 🙏✨🌷
 
Thank you so much! This was very helpful 🙏 It’s night here and nothing is open (also haven’t seen any critical care type foods for sale anywhere), so I improvised using the article you sent - pellets and I smooshed some capsicum in there for extra vitamin C and taste - she licked little bits from the syringe and even took a little from the spoon. She also ate a little lettuce and baby spinach yay! So food seems to go down, she just doesn’t want to eat much or chew anything super hard. I’m going to put her in a separate cage tomorrow so the other doesn’t eat all her food/stress her and I can see how much she’s actually eating. Her coat is still shiny but she is quite thin. She’s always been smaller but it’s quite alarming - and you’re correct, the vet is closed on weekends here. She’s always pulled fur out, ever since I left her at the vet for tests when she was 2yrs, so I don’t know if she’s pulled her fur because she’s sore or just her nervous habit. As for ballooning, the other g pig has fatty lumps that apparently cause pain/discomfort (hence why I have painkillers at hand, she has it daily) in her tummy and is also quite fat. She seems to have a tummy upset but she gets that regularly (old age? Also loses her eyesight time to time. Milk thistle seems to help tho), vet is kind but doesn’t seem to have any suggestions. She loves eating and her coat is shiny so vet is satisfied she’s still happy, just gotta be careful what she eats (like no grass, she gets a kind of colic thing). Going to reassess them both in the morning, sort cages out and try and feed the sick piggie some more syringe mush. Thank you again, I really really appreciate it 🙏✨🌷

Please keep feeding her as little but often as you can - you are aiming at 60 ml in 24 hours but as close to 40 ml as possible in any touch and go cases. Try to get at least 5 ml into her per session, more if possible; even if you have to feed every 2 hours during the day.

But at least she doesn't have a blockage of some sort. Unfortunately, that still leaves a very wide field. :(
 
Please keep feeding her as little but often as you can - you are aiming at 60 ml in 24 hours but as close to 40 ml as possible in any touch and go cases. Try to get at least 5 ml into her per session, more if possible; even if you have to feed every 2 hours during the day.

But at least she doesn't have a blockage of some sort. Unfortunately, that still leaves a very wide field. :(
Thank you 🙏 Today she wouldn’t eat much of the pellet mixture but I gave her painkillers, a little honey water. However I took her outside and she ate some grass! She pottered around the lawn. Her eyes seem a bit crusty. She ate some cucumber, sucked on it a little too - might be her back teeth like you said. Might have a mouth infection in there = bad breath and crusty eyes? Sore teeth means eating less + more softer watery foods means diarrhoea? She still has a shiny coat and purrs. I’m happy she ate some stuff, she ate a little grain and hay too. Didn’t want me to give her too much. I need to take her to the vet when they open and see what they think/try some antibiotics. The smell is a little less strong than yesterday but she seems sad and depressed - trying my best to keep her happy and fed! Guinea pig culture here is easy come easy go which is awful and nutrition support and exotic vet care is harder to get here. Thank you for all your support!
 
Thank you 🙏 Today she wouldn’t eat much of the pellet mixture but I gave her painkillers, a little honey water. However I took her outside and she ate some grass! She pottered around the lawn. Her eyes seem a bit crusty. She ate some cucumber, sucked on it a little too - might be her back teeth like you said. Might have a mouth infection in there = bad breath and crusty eyes? Sore teeth means eating less + more softer watery foods means diarrhoea? She still has a shiny coat and purrs. I’m happy she ate some stuff, she ate a little grain and hay too. Didn’t want me to give her too much. I need to take her to the vet when they open and see what they think/try some antibiotics. The smell is a little less strong than yesterday but she seems sad and depressed - trying my best to keep her happy and fed! Guinea pig culture here is easy come easy go which is awful and nutrition support and exotic vet care is harder to get here. Thank you for all your support!

You need to keep syringe feeding her, whether she likes it or not because otherwirse her body will start closing down through lack of fuel.

Your vet's findings could mean that you may have to make the decision to euthanise but until you get there, there is still all to win if it is a treatable issue.

I fully acknowledge that it is a very difficult time when you have to strike a very careful balance between hope and fear/pain of loss because you cannot commit but may be forced to at any time.
All you can do right now is try your best to hang on in there and try give your vets a call first thing in the morning.

My childhood piggies go back half a century so I have spent a lot of time with antiquated attitudes, lack of sympathy and understanding or anywhere to turn to for advice or help, either. :(
But at least we can be there for you not just with advice but also with moral support. We now have a new End of Life and Bereavement section where we look after the owners by providing understanding community support if you feel it would help you. :)
 
Hi

How is your poorly girl and have you been able to get a vet appointment? Thinking of you.
 
Hi

How is your poorly girl and have you been able to get a vet appointment? Thinking of you.
Thank you for all your support! 🩷🩷
I couldn’t get out of my commitments that day BUT I booked her an appointment anyway and my Dad thankfully took her 😅 I very traumatically lost my previous two pigs (have had g pigs since age 3.5yrs) and then got these when I was 16 and Covid lockdown started. Even though they have been very health defective and we’ve spent thousands my dad and I are VERY attached to them. And my bird of 10.5years just passed so this is really tricky timing. I gave dad all the symptoms and your very kind recommendations and suggestions for the vet - the vet couldn’t find anything. I couldn’t get into the one that operated on her and had to go to the one that wanted to put a pig down over fatty lumps. He did give her an antibiotic shot and some meds. It’s not helped sadly. She now won’t willingly take syringe food and I have to force feed (little bits so she doesn’t choke). She seems to gag if she tries to eat herself. The vet couldn’t feel/see anything in her throat but there must be something there, mbe a cancer. She just sits near the heater. It seems to be her time, I’m devastated but don’t know what to do. I’m watching her to see if I need to take her to the vet if she gets in pain for euthanasia but in the meantime I’m trying to help her be happy, put her outside today with her sister to eat grass because even tho it makes them sick it’s the only thing she will try and eat. She still gags but seems happier. She’s now back up against the heater. These two just keep getting sick over and over, they’re not even the old old age, I had a pig who passed at 8. Trying to keep her going also for her sister’s sake because they’re so bonded.

Thank you for your kind words and suggestions - its in her paws now, hoping she’ll recover somehow and in the meantime I’ll keep feeding and monitoring her 🩷
 
Hi

I am very sorry, and very sorry that it comes on the back of two other losses. Your piggies are quite obviously very much loved and cared for, so every loss really hurts badly. Sadly, we can never choose when, how and under what circumstances the end comes; that is not in our purvue as owners. What we can do is to give our pets as many happy todays filled with love and good care - that is how pets measure their lives by.

Has the the vet actually looked into the back of her mouth for some possible dental overgrow, which can happen very quickly, sores or signs of fungal (oral thrush) inside the mouth or something stuck in the back? Just feeling from the outside may not be enough. Dental spurs can grow very quickly. Something is clearly obstructing her ability but not her willingness to eat. :(

HUGS
Please step up your feeding support as much as you can because if she is not eating enough/cannot eat enough for whatever reason, she will quickly lose strength and starve.
 
It would be worth getting the vet to look at her front AND back teeth - it could well be molar overgrowth meaning she can't eat properly.
I really do second this, my piggie had overgrown teeth very recently and couldn't eat either as much as he tried, best of luck xx
 
Hi All! Thank you for your help! Just a quick update:
1. The first vet we went to (regular one was booked out) did antibiotic shot and oral script. Infection went away but she still was sick. I wasn’t there so don’t know if he checked back teeth.
2. We went to our usual amazing vet and he very closely looked in her mouth. Didn’t see anything major, one tooth looked a bit sharp.
3. She had no fat left, lost over 300 grams then lost another 50. She was getting more and more difficult about the syringe feeding. I rang and rang for emergency appointment/surgery. They kindly fit us in.
4. They put her under anaesthetic and they found bad tooth spikes (as you guys suspected!) that were cutting her tongue. There was a lot of fur caught up in them which is why she was gagging. Between appointments her front teeth started rotating and doing weird things. The vet cleaned it all up and ground all problematic teeth back.
5. Because she had no reserves, recovery was rough. She had major surgery a few months prior and recovered fine, but this… She was twitching wildly and then not moving at all other times. Didn’t think she’d make it through the night. But she did thankfully, but she was still dying. It was awful. We rushed her back to the vet, they stabilised her, cared for her half the day, and gave me back a stable pig who was taking syringe food.
6. Her front teeth don’t meet yet so in the meantime she’s still getting critical care syringe food but she is eating grated/chopped up capsicum and cucumber! She’s eating on her own, she’s happy, looking wayyyy better. She’s on the road to recovery.

I am SO thankful she’s doing better, it was really touch and go. And the vet did an amazing job, and they kept the bill a bit lower for me (I was broke but by the grace of God sold some jewellery to pay for her surgery!). This brave little piggie is coming off all the sugar from presurgery (tried to get her to eat anything) and turns 6 years in a few months!

Thank you all again 🙏
 
Morning a great outcome but how awful for you both. Well done to you both 🥰
 
Hi All! Thank you for your help! Just a quick update:
1. The first vet we went to (regular one was booked out) did antibiotic shot and oral script. Infection went away but she still was sick. I wasn’t there so don’t know if he checked back teeth.
2. We went to our usual amazing vet and he very closely looked in her mouth. Didn’t see anything major, one tooth looked a bit sharp.
3. She had no fat left, lost over 300 grams then lost another 50. She was getting more and more difficult about the syringe feeding. I rang and rang for emergency appointment/surgery. They kindly fit us in.
4. They put her under anaesthetic and they found bad tooth spikes (as you guys suspected!) that were cutting her tongue. There was a lot of fur caught up in them which is why she was gagging. Between appointments her front teeth started rotating and doing weird things. The vet cleaned it all up and ground all problematic teeth back.
5. Because she had no reserves, recovery was rough. She had major surgery a few months prior and recovered fine, but this… She was twitching wildly and then not moving at all other times. Didn’t think she’d make it through the night. But she did thankfully, but she was still dying. It was awful. We rushed her back to the vet, they stabilised her, cared for her half the day, and gave me back a stable pig who was taking syringe food.
6. Her front teeth don’t meet yet so in the meantime she’s still getting critical care syringe food but she is eating grated/chopped up capsicum and cucumber! She’s eating on her own, she’s happy, looking wayyyy better. She’s on the road to recovery.

I am SO thankful she’s doing better, it was really touch and go. And the vet did an amazing job, and they kept the bill a bit lower for me (I was broke but by the grace of God sold some jewellery to pay for her surgery!). This brave little piggie is coming off all the sugar from presurgery (tried to get her to eat anything) and turns 6 years in a few months!

Thank you all again 🙏

Well done - you are such a dedicated and loving owner. :tu:

Can you see whether she is able to eat some chopped up hay if you hand-feed it to her? The more she can use those grinding molars - which have evolved againsy the highly abrasive silica in grass fibre to grow very fast - with the mainstay of their diet, the better.
If you can, also try herbs like cilantro, basil or a bit of parsley with chopped stalks for more trace elements.

If she had a lot of fur in her mouth, have your vets checked her for self-barbering, potentially for arthritis in her legs or some other pain in or just below the skin? I assume that she is still on metacam?
Barbering (Eating Hair)
Caring for Older Piggies and Facing the End - A practical and supportive information collection

My fingers are still firmly crossed.
 
Well done - you are such a dedicated and loving owner. :tu:

Can you see whether she is able to eat some chopped up hay if you hand-feed it to her? The more she can use those grinding molars - which have evolved againsy the highly abrasive silica in grass fibre to grow very fast - with the mainstay of their diet, the better.
If you can, also try herbs like cilantro, basil or a bit of parsley with chopped stalks for more trace elements.

If she had a lot of fur in her mouth, have your vets checked her for self-barbering, potentially for arthritis in her legs or some other pain in or just below the skin? I assume that she is still on metacam?
Barbering (Eating Hair)
Caring for Older Piggies and Facing the End - A practical and supportive information collection

My fingers are still firmly crossed.

She can only use her grinding molars because vet ground so much of her front teeth down 😅 I’ll definitely try some hay and cilantro, just so happy she’s accepting food again. Last night she cried for more food (this was her custom every time fridge opened) and she snuggled the critical care bowl so I held out a syringe and she started licking it! She had like 7 in a row (an hour previous she wouldn’t take any so not sure what her metabolism is doing 😆), her appetite is back! She’s talkative and curious again too.

As for the fur in mouth, vet seemed to think it was mainly from grooming, she does groom a lot. But she also self barbers and has done since her first (stressful) vet visit for bladder stones. She’s had surgeries and so many checkups, usually hates metacam too, just seems to be a stress thing. When she gets stressed out comes the fur, all over her tummy. When she’s chilling and not stressed the fur comes back and stays for a while. She also gets a skin condition on her rump (not her tummy though) that makes the fur fall out. Some kind of psoriasis - I’ve been given treatments for her by vet but they didn’t help, only a lather of coconut oil clears it up. She’s always been a highly strung little pig, while her sister is SO chill. These two have had so many health conditions, would say it was inbreeding if I hadn’t seen the parents myself.
 
She can only use her grinding molars because vet ground so much of her front teeth down 😅 I’ll definitely try some hay and cilantro, just so happy she’s accepting food again. Last night she cried for more food (this was her custom every time fridge opened) and she snuggled the critical care bowl so I held out a syringe and she started licking it! She had like 7 in a row (an hour previous she wouldn’t take any so not sure what her metabolism is doing 😆), her appetite is back! She’s talkative and curious again too.

As for the fur in mouth, vet seemed to think it was mainly from grooming, she does groom a lot. But she also self barbers and has done since her first (stressful) vet visit for bladder stones. She’s had surgeries and so many checkups, usually hates metacam too, just seems to be a stress thing. When she gets stressed out comes the fur, all over her tummy. When she’s chilling and not stressed the fur comes back and stays for a while. She also gets a skin condition on her rump (not her tummy though) that makes the fur fall out. Some kind of psoriasis - I’ve been given treatments for her by vet but they didn’t help, only a lather of coconut oil clears it up. She’s always been a highly strung little pig, while her sister is SO chill. These two have had so many health conditions, would say it was inbreeding if I hadn’t seen the parents myself.

Try to give her more hard food, especially hay, even if you have to cut them into thin short strips and feed them by hand in order to replace the function of the front teeth. Continue to letting her have as much syringe feed as she wants; ideally several times a day.

If you have access to fresh, dog pee-free grass, then please feed her that (it contains the same amount of silica but in softer form; again as long as she cannot grip solids, in shorter lengths that she can manage. You need to introduce any fresh slowly in order to avoid tummy upsets. but fresh growing grass is high in vitamin C and is the reason why guinea pigs could switch off the gene complex that allowed them to produce it in their bodies.
Here is our Spring time advice: Feeding Grass And Preparing Your Piggies For Lawn Time
 
Back
Top