Ill guines pig got bit by his cagemate

[BergSchmill]

Hi there! Long time lurker but this is my first post! I've learned a lot from this forum but was hoping to get some opinions and/pr advice.

I am a first time Guinea Pig owner so I'm still learning new things about them.

My 2 year old, Schmill, has recently been diagnosed with a bladder stone after I took him to the vet for lethargy and not eating. The stone itself is fairly large, so he will have to undergo surgery to remove it. The vet already sort of made me feel judged when she was explaining to me that this stone "just didnt for overnight, you know." (Whether that was her intent or not, i dont know) and then recommended having a surgery a week out when he was feeling more normal

So after I get his pain meds, the critical care. and antibiotics, I kept him in a smaller cage so I could monitor how much he was eating and drinking. When he was feeling a little better (today, about 3 days after the vet visit) I decided to put him back in the cage with his cagemate, a 3 year old, Pedro.

I had left them alone for a few minutes, heard a lot squeak. And came back to find that Pedro had bitten Schmill really bad. The two sometimes would bicker every once in a while and I'd separate them, but they never turned violent until now.

I know hes due for another vet visit soon and I'm so afraid that shes going to think I'm a complete moron or neglectful because Schmill got hurt again. I dont know what I should do. Just explain to her that Pedro didnt take well to being reintroduced to Schmill?

Thanks in advance, friends!

 

[BergSchmill]

I had left them alone for a few minutes, heard a lot squeak.
[/QUOTE]
Edit- I meant I heard a *loud squeak, not a lot of squeaks

 

[DM030819]

@BergSchmill Accidents happen and the vet shouldn't judge you if you are honest.

Once two of my happily bonded boys had a tussle in the carrier on the way to the vet and one was bitten on his nose. The vet just cleaned it for me when we arrived, she didn't judge.

 

[BergSchmill]

@BergSchmill Accidents happen and the vet shouldn't judge you if you are honest.

Once two of my happily bonded boys had a tussle in the carrier on the way to the vet and one was bitten on his nose. The vet just cleaned it for me when we arrived, she didn't judge.

Thank you! I appreciate the reassurance. I could just be overly anxious, so thank you for the reply. <3 I hope your little piggies are getting along again!

 

[DM030819]

They were both fine afterwards @BergSchmill, thank you for asking!

Sometimes when a pig is ill then their cagemate can start getting bossy and tries to take over as top pig. I've had it happen a few times so you're not to blame at all.

Are you going to take him to get the bit looked at? When is his surgery scheduled for? They may be able to bring it forward if he's going in to get his bite checked.

 

[VickiA]

These things do happen. I’m sure the vet won’t judge you harshly. When are you due back at the vets?

 

[Wiebke]

Hi there! Long time lurker but this is my first post! I've learned a lot from this forum but was hoping to get some opinions and/pr advice.

I am a first time Guinea Pig owner so I'm still learning new things about them.

My 2 year old, Schmill, has recently been diagnosed with a bladder stone after I took him to the vet for lethargy and not eating. The stone itself is fairly large, so he will have to undergo surgery to remove it. The vet already sort of made me feel judged when she was explaining to me that this stone "just didnt for overnight, you know." (Whether that was her intent or not, i dont know) and then recommended having a surgery a week out when he was feeling more normal

So after I get his pain meds, the critical care. and antibiotics, I kept him in a smaller cage so I could monitor how much he was eating and drinking. When he was feeling a little better (today, about 3 days after the vet visit) I decided to put him back in the cage with his cagemate, a 3 year old, Pedro.

I had left them alone for a few minutes, heard a lot squeak. And came back to find that Pedro had bitten Schmill really bad. The two sometimes would bicker every once in a while and I'd separate them, but they never turned violent until now.
View attachment 114146
I know hes due for another vet visit soon and I'm so afraid that shes going to think I'm a complete moron or neglectful because Schmill got hurt again. I dont know what I should do. Just explain to her that Pedro didnt take well to being reintroduced to Schmill?

Thanks in advance, friends!

Hi!

Please see another vet if at all possible!

Stones can in some cases form very quickly and in others not cause any very obvious problems until you get a sudden decline. In any case, a guinea pig in acute agony/lethargy requires removal as soon as possible as an emergency operation because there is a risk that your stone has ended up in the urethra and may block the urine flow.
Your support feeding won't build him up much in view of the enormous pain he is in. the sooner the stone is out, the better!
Weekly weight monitoring can help to catch a weight loss earlier but if the stone has moved from the bladder into the urethra, acute symptoms can happen very suddenly. Unlike sows, boars have a longer urethra and also an awkward inglenook where a stone often fetches up and causes enormous pain. Loss of appetite, partial or full gut stasis as a result of the pain, lethargy and sometimes even back leg paralysis can be then caused by it.
Unfortunately, while a bladder operation is generally a fairly straight forward operation with a good complications-free recovery rate (and often a very quick improvement from the instant pain relief once the stone is out), a urethral stone in boars is much more difficult to operate out.

I am very sorry that a reunion has led to a fight and fall-out. It can unfortunately happen and is one of the reasons why recommendations on companionship have changed to leave piggies together as much as possible, including on the trip to the vet and during post-op recovery. Unfortunately, this means the end of the road for your boys.

Please take the time to read the following links. you will hopefully find them helpful:
Tips For Post-operative Care
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

Diet is key to minimising the risk of bladder stones and sludge.
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets
(includes stricter diet recommendations for guinea pigs with bladder/urinary tract problems)

Bonds In Trouble
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

I am very sorry; please do not feel guilty. You are still a caring and loving owner! Stuff happens to all of us.
I am keeping my fingers very firmly crossed that your boy is making a good recovery from his operation!
Please keep any questions and updates to this specially monitored ongoing support thread.

 

[Lady Kelly]

I can only echo Wiebkes wonderful advice above from my own recent experience. My Donald lost a lot of weight very quickly. He was eager to eat but stopped after eating a small amount. Even with a high dose of pain relief this didn't change. The exotics specialist I was referred to took him in for an x-ray and there was a sizeable stone in what appeared to be his bladder so as it wasn't causing a blockage so the vet opted for surgery the next day and he stayed in over night to have critical care syringed to him every couple of hours in the hope to make him as strong as possible ahead of the op. He came through the op well although the stone had actually been found to be in his urethra (the tube between his kidney and bladder) this is extremely dangerous as it can cause a blockage and backup in the kidneys. The backup of urine can then cause the kidneys to fail. Although Donald survived I ended up at the vets a week later as he was losing weight and in pain again and they found that his right kidney was extremely sore and enlarged this time. It was felt that it was likely a result of damage to the kidneys and I had to have him PTS. I often worry that I didn't spot the signs quick enough to cure him but I know that's the worry of being an owner plus it's part of the bereavement process

 

[BergSchmill]

They were both fine afterwards @BergSchmill, thank you for asking!

Sometimes when a pig is ill then their cagemate can start getting bossy and tries to take over as top pig. I've had it happen a few times so you're not to blame at all.

Are you going to take him to get the bit looked at? When is his surgery scheduled for? They may be able to bring it forward if he's going in to get his bite checked.

The surgery is supposed to be at the end of this week. She wanted to give him time for the stasis to calm down. She had said that it was causing the most if his pain at the time and wanted to get that under control first (I don't believe I mentioned that in my original post, apologies!) So that way he would be optimal for surgery. I would have opted for surgery ASAP but with the stasis and my own funds having run out (the initial vet bill, other bills, and rent taking a huge toll on my bank account) it'll either have to wait until Friday or I'll go to a new vet sooner. It's a LOT further away from me, but I'll do it if I need to.

The current vet I'm visiting does NOT accept payment plans at all, and I unfortunately don't have Care Credit to help me at this point in time. I was going to clean the wound with a mild saline solution I was going to grab on my way home from work tonight, so hopefully it'll keep an infection at bay.

 

[BergSchmill]

These things do happen. I’m sure the vet won’t judge you harshly. When are you due back at the vets?

It was going to be at the end of this week. Thursday or Friday, probably Friday since that's my day off. I just feel so bad, he's been having a rough few days

 

[BergSchmill]

Hi!

Please see another vet if at all possible!

Stones can in some cases form very quickly and in others not cause any very obvious problems until you get a sudden decline. In any case, a guinea pig in acute agony/lethargy requires removal as soon as possible as an emergency operation because there is a risk that your stone has ended up in the urethra and may block the urine flow.
Your support feeding won't build him up much in view of the enormous pain he is in. the sooner the stone is out, the better!
Weekly weight monitoring can help to catch a weight loss earlier but if the stone has moved from the bladder into the urethra, acute symptoms can happen very suddenly. Unlike sows, boars have a longer urethra and also an awkward inglenook where a stone often fetches up and causes enormous pain. Loss of appetite, partial or full gut stasis as a result of the pain, lethargy and sometimes even back leg paralysis can be then caused by it.
Unfortunately, while a bladder operation is generally a fairly straight forward operation with a good complications-free recovery rate (and often a very quick improvement from the instant pain relief once the stone is out), a urethral stone in boars is much more difficult to operate out.

I am very sorry that a reunion has led to a fight and fall-out. It can unfortunately happen and is one of the reasons why recommendations on companionship have changed to leave piggies together as much as possible, including on the trip to the vet and during post-op recovery. Unfortunately, this means the end of the road for your boys.

Please take the time to read the following links. you will hopefully find them helpful:
Tips For Post-operative Care
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

Diet is key to minimising the risk of bladder stones and sludge.
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets
(includes stricter diet recommendations for guinea pigs with bladder/urinary tract problems)

Bonds In Trouble
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

I am very sorry; please do not feel guilty. You are still a caring and loving owner! Stuff happens to all of us.
I am keeping my fingers very firmly crossed that your boy is making a good recovery from his operation!
Please keep any questions and updates to this specially monitored ongoing support thread.

Thank you for all the information!

I am currently in contact with a Veterinary Teaching hospital, but have yet to actually get information or an appointment. If I can, I will try to take him in Tuesday if they're able to take payment plans. The current vet I'm at does not take payment plans. They're projecting between 680 and 760 USD for the operation and I just can't shovel that out until I get paid again. It makes me feel absolutely awful I can't do any more.

I was unaware it was recommended to take both boys to the vet together, even if we're just seeing one of them. I don't know if I can make their bond better in the future, but where it stands right now, I don't think I'll try to reintroduce them. They have a big C&C cage and so I just put a barrier between them. They can see and smell each other but no risk of fighting anymore. (They still have plenty of room to roam, thankfully!)

And thank you so much for your wishes! I"ll pass them along to little Schmill for good luck <3 I'll keep the thread updated as much as I can, as new information gets passed to me from the vet(s)

 

[BergSchmill]

I can only echo Wiebkes wonderful advice above from my own recent experience. My Donald lost a lot of weight very quickly. He was eager to eat but stopped after eating a small amount. Even with a high dose of pain relief this didn't change. The exotics specialist I was referred to took him in for an x-ray and there was a sizeable stone in what appeared to be his bladder so as it wasn't causing a blockage so the vet opted for surgery the next day and he stayed in over night to have critical care syringed to him every couple of hours in the hope to make him as strong as possible ahead of the op. He came through the op well although the stone had actually been found to be in his urethra (the tube between his kidney and bladder) this is extremely dangerous as it can cause a blockage and backup in the kidneys. The backup of urine can then cause the kidneys to fail. Although Donald survived I ended up at the vets a week later as he was losing weight and in pain again and they found that his right kidney was extremely sore and enlarged this time. It was felt that it was likely a result of damage to the kidneys and I had to have him PTS. I often worry that I didn't spot the signs quick enough to cure him but I know that's the worry of being an owner plus it's part of the bereavement process

I'm so sorry for your loss. That has got to be so hard to go through. These are my first guinea pigs, and my first pets in general so I know that eventually I'll have to deal with the Rainbow Bridge, I know it'll absolutely devastate me.
I'm getting in contact with another vet, just have yet to hear back about any information regarding their prices and payment options. The sad fact is, that I had called upwards of 8-10 vets in my area and the only ones that treat small exotics are the one I'm currently using and the one I'm trying to talk with. No one else treats the little guys which is a huge bummer.


I'm definitely going to get him in for that operation as soon as I can, hopefully sooner rather than later! *fingers crossed*

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for all the information!

I am currently in contact with a Veterinary Teaching hospital, but have yet to actually get information or an appointment. If I can, I will try to take him in Tuesday if they're able to take payment plans. The current vet I'm at does not take payment plans. They're projecting between 680 and 760 USD for the operation and I just can't shovel that out until I get paid again. It makes me feel absolutely awful I can't do any more.

I was unaware it was recommended to take both boys to the vet together, even if we're just seeing one of them. I don't know if I can make their bond better in the future, but where it stands right now, I don't think I'll try to reintroduce them. They have a big C&C cage and so I just put a barrier between them. They can see and smell each other but no risk of fighting anymore. (They still have plenty of room to roam, thankfully!)

And thank you so much for your wishes! I"ll pass them along to little Schmill for good luck <3 I'll keep the thread updated as much as I can, as new information gets passed to me from the vet(s)

All the best and fingers very firmly crossed! Vet fees in the US are a quite bit higher for a comparable operation than in the UK although even here I have had the odd month when I left even more money at the vets and had to start rebuilding my vet fund from scratch again hoping that there wouldn't be another major emergency for a few weeks...

The understanding of how important companionship is for guinea pigs during illness/recovery is rather recent and is only slowly spreading, so please do not feel guilty about not having come across it before.
You will find that many US vets, apart from a few specialists are not aware of it yet, either. Nor are many general UK vets yet. We are all on a constant learning curve, including me - and I have learned a lot the hard way from mistakes of my own along the way. In fact, most of our knowledge has come from making mistakes, bumping into limits and trying to understand what has happened.

Never blame yourself for stumbling over something you didn't know at the time; as adults we do that all the time. That is not important. What is important is how you get up, what you take from it and make use of in the future. A life-long learning process doesn't mean you have to be perfect right from the word go - in fact, perfection is an unachievable goal. Life-long learning means that you learn from your mistakes, gain hopefully a deeper understanding and do not try not make the same mistakes all over again; instead you make new ones and repeat the process all over again...

Your boys can still be bonded neighbours through the bars. We have plenty of 'can't live together but can't live apart' boar pairs on this forum!
Medical separations are unfortunately one of the most common causes for a fall-out in adult piggies of any gender. Concentrate on getting your boy through his bladder stone op and recovery first and then take it from there.

 

[Lady Kelly]

I'm so sorry for your loss. That has got to be so hard to go through. These are my first guinea pigs, and my first pets in general so I know that eventually I'll have to deal with the Rainbow Bridge, I know it'll absolutely devastate me.
I'm getting in contact with another vet, just have yet to hear back about any information regarding their prices and payment options. The sad fact is, that I had called upwards of 8-10 vets in my area and the only ones that treat small exotics are the one I'm currently using and the one I'm trying to talk with. No one else treats the little guys which is a huge bummer.


I'm definitely going to get him in for that operation as soon as I can, hopefully sooner rather than later! *fingers crossed*

I really hope you can find a vet to help soon. Have you tried the guinea lynx list? Veterinarians: Colorado - Guinea Lynx Records there's not many and I know US states are huge in comparison to our little island of the UK

 

[BergSchmill]

I really hope you can find a vet to help soon. Have you tried the guinea lynx list? Veterinarians: Colorado - Guinea Lynx Records there's not many and I know US states are huge in comparison to our little island of the UK

I haven't looked there but I will definitely try! I also looked up other vets that have the potential to treat exotics. I just got off work now, (22:00 where I am) so I'll have to call them in the morning.

I appreciate the link! Thank you!

 

[Wiebke]

I haven't looked there but I will definitely try! I also looked up other vets that have the potential to treat exotics. I just got off work now, (22:00 where I am) so I'll have to call them in the morning.

I appreciate the link! Thank you!

Could you please add your country and state to your account details, so they appear with each post you make and allow us to tailor any adivce and recommendations to what is available and relevant where you are straight away; this includes recommended vet links, rescue access (sadly the only guinea pig rescue in your state has recently closed down), climate, brands (including medical brand names) and general background where it is important. We are UK based but we are dealing with enquiries from all over the world. Without your location, you'll get our general but not our specific advice.
Please click on your username on the top bar, go to account details and add in location Colorado US. That will enable us to give you US based advice and further links whenever appropriate. We jump between so many different threads in a day that being able to a have a quick look to the left when posting makes all the difference.

 

[BergSchmill]

Could you please add your country and state to your account details, so they appear with each post you make and allow us to tailor any adivce and recommendations to what is available and relevant where you are straight away; this includes recommended vet links, rescue access (sadly the only guinea pig rescue in your state has recently closed down), climate, brands (including medical brand names) and general background where it is important. We are UK based but we are dealing with enquiries from all over the world. Without your location, you'll get our general but not our specific advice.
Please click on your username on the top bar, go to account details and add in location Colorado US. That will enable us to give you US based advice and further links whenever appropriate. We jump between so many different threads in a day that being able to a have a quick look to the left when posting makes all the difference.

Oh of course! Thank you! <3