Ophelia

[PiggyintheMiddle]

Non-emergency vet visits, contagion and illness care support

The above linked guide has several relevant titles for you (weight loss, syringe feeding etc.) sorry I can't link the ones that would be of most help for some reason the site won't let me. I suddenly don't have enough privileges to use that facility!

16g is less than a wee or a poop and is nothing to worry about unless it's a continuous downward trend, when you would need to weigh daily before stepping in with a vet visit and syringe feeding. 50g in 24 hrs is when you would normally start to think something may be wrong.

I hope you can manage to go away and enjoy your holiday.

Thank you both for your reassurance!

 

[Piggies&buns]

I agree - I would make her an appointment for when you get back

It’s only when weight loss gets to 50g or more that you get concerned and step in.
100g of loss in 24 hours is an emergency.

Make sure your friend weighs her every day and syringe feeds her critical care to keep her stable if her weight goes down too far

Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

 

[weepweeps]

What would she feed her?

I meant if she keeps dropping weight then your friend can syringe feed her until you get back and go to the vets.

 

[KHBz]

Thank you so so much, everyone, for your advice and reassurance.

 

[KHBz]

So, this is the situation. The two survived the week together in the more restricted space of the Ferplast 160 and my friend didn't have to use the gloves(!) Just before we went away, and after two+ weeks together, Betsie's extremely dominant behaviour seemed to be settling down, which tallies with what I have read about the bonding process on the forum. My friend's perception was that they got on well.

But here's the however. She also commented that Ophelia defers to Betsie, such that when she gave them a pile of readigrass, Ophelia watched whilst Betsie ate it all. (Why my friend didn't put a second pile down, especially as I had stressed that Ophelia needs to gain weight and needs the readi-grass...)

Ophelia has continued to lose weight. She has lost 100 g since the vet visit two weeks ago when she was at 820 g. Her weight for most of her six years has stayed stable at around 920g, and she has always been slender. Weighed at the vets yesterday, she is far too skinny at the 720 g she is now. We have booked her in for sedation, ultrasound and an x-ray next week. There is still no tumour that can be felt and she needs to be sedated to look at her teeth. We are starting Oxbow critical care today (my suggestion to the vet) and we put the grid down between them last night. As I told the vet, this weight loss coincides neatly with the death of Bianca and the arrival of Betsie 12 days later.

Separating them was still a hard decision given that they are clearly bonded now. My younger daughter (17 next month), who spends most of her time at her desk right by them, says they often sit near one another. She is worried about the separation weakening the bond. (Fortunately, the vet said that it would be sensible and I am enforcing this now.) However, when I have sat and done nothing but watch them for an hour or so, I am not so happy about the form this bond takes. Yesterday, Betsie was sitting in the mini-hutch next to the cuddle-cup. Ophelia ran in and curled-up in the cuddle-cup right next to her -- all very lovely, until, that is, a few minutes later when Betsie got up and suddenly lunged and nipped at Ophelia's face. Later when they found themselves face to face between two hideys, Ophelia hesitated and then ran away squeaking. Another time, Ophelia just froze when Betsie came near. Despite this, Ophelia is often seeking her out. My interpretation is that she is in a state of constant tension, wanting to be near Betsie but on edge for when the next nip will come. Betsie is no longer tipping her out of every hidey but Ophelia can no longer settle. Betsie stayed within the mini-hutch late last night but Ophelia continued to run around, from hidey to hidey, as though looking for something and never staying in one place for more than a few minutes. It is because she is constantly moving that she is not getting enough hay -- this is both because she is not choosing to sit down for long enough, irrespective of Betsie, and because, at times, Betsie is not allowing her to sit still for long enough.

Betsie is not happy with the grid and is no longer coming out of the mini-hutch that is on her side -- as was the case when she first came to us. Ophelia is bewildered. She still doesn't settle but she frequently sits alongside or facing the bars, as though waiting for Betsie to come out. The time that I observed Betsie actually come out and approach the bars, Ophelia immediately ran away.

The problem of starting the critical care at the same time as separation is that the reason for any weight gain will no longer be clear-cut (ie we won't know if this would have happened anyway when no longer together.) However, I think we will be able to see if Ophelia begins to relax. But she keeps going to the bars ...

Ophelia is eating timothy hay which must be good for her teeth, and she has always eaten all nuggets and vegetables. Because there is nothing that is very obviously wrong with her, my inclination is not to pay the £300 (which we don't have) for all the investigations which could well throw up nothing (as the vet said). I would like to continue the separation beyond a night and today but won't that mean that the bond is irreparable? To me, Ophelia is really needing company, to the extent that she is seeking it out from a piggy whose dominance is detrimental to her. Betsie also needs her company, but my priority is Ophelia.

I know what I want to do, but perhaps it will be upsetting for Ophelia to lose Betsie.

Do you have any thoughts? I know it would be advisable to pay for all the investigations whatever, but it is clear when the weight loss began, and it is all so expensive. Perhaps Ophelia is pining for Bianca? I just don't know.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I think I would agree with your assessment here - desperate for company but it doesn’t mean they are right for each other.
Re: Keeping the separation going for longer and the bond being irreparable - to me this does not sound like it has the potential to be a good relationship even given time. She/they both seems too much on edge.

Yes you are right, it would be advisable to go ahead with the investigations but I totally see why you also wouldn’t want to. It would seem there is no obvious illness and with the timeline…..

Definitely start the critical care. You are right that you won’t know if she would have started eating enough in her own anyway but her weight loss has hit too much not to step in.

 

[KHBz]

I think I would agree with your assessment here - desperate for company but it doesn’t mean they are right for each other.
Re: Keeping the separation going for longer and the bond being irreparable - to me this does not sound like it has the potential to be a good relationship even given time. She/they both seems too much on edge.

Yes you are right, it would be advisable to go ahead with the investigations but I totally see why you also wouldn’t want to. It would seem there is no obvious illness and with the timeline…..

Definitely start the critical care. You are right that you won’t know if she would have started eating enough in her own anyway but her weight loss has hit too much not to step in.

The 'love' emoji seems odd in this context but it means thank you very very much for your swift and experienced response.

 

[PiggyintheMiddle]

Exhausted piggy after a stressful critical care session.

 

[KHBz]

View attachment 274287
Exhausted piggy after a stressful critical care session.

We didn’t get much down her, trying to slip it in amongst mouthfuls of coriander (which worked at the beginning), and so have now left it mixed in with a yummy brown pellet mush (of which she had a little).

 

[JaseChase]

Sending you lots of healing wheeks for Ophelia. It sounds like you’re doing the right thing by them I’m sorry it’s so hard. I’m syringe feeding my boy atm and it gets exhausting quickly, take care of yourselves as well

 

[PiggyintheMiddle]

Ophelia ate her critical-care-mixed-with-nuggets overnight, and is now lying down relaxed on fleece with no one to disturb her. We have filled up her bowl this morning. Betsie has cheered up as well.

 

[KHBz]

Ophelia seems to be eating and eating and eating … particularly timothy hay.

 

[KHBz]

Sending you lots of healing wheeks for Ophelia. It sounds like you’re doing the right thing by them I’m sorry it’s so hard. I’m syringe feeding my boy atm and it gets exhausting quickly, take care of yourselves as well

How is your boy and how is the syringe feeding going? Very many healing wheeks for him too. Is he coping with syringe? It is very stressful so I feel for you. I think that for now we will stick to the nugget mix since Ophelia is eating. It might mean she’s only getting 2, instead of the 4 portions for her body weight, but that is a lot of mushed nuggets and she hasn’t lost her appetite for everything else we give her.

 

[Mrs Tiggy Winkle]

I'm sorry to hear the two seem to be having bond troubles, unless illness on Ophelia's part is conceivably causing the problems? Tbh from your description, it doesn't sound that way.

I always regretted leaving sweet little Woolly together in a cage with the rather dominant Snowy beyond the time I thought Woolly was OK with the situation just because of what I'd read from people more expert than me on bonding... NOT what is on this forum. But still, you're on the ground observing all this. If you feel you don't really have £300 to spare, that's legitimate too.
Hoping for clarity for you all.

 

[JaseChase]

How is your boy and how is the syringe feeding going? Very many healing wheeks for him too. Is he coping with syringe? It is very stressful so I feel for you. I think that for now we will stick to the nugget mix since Ophelia is eating. It might mean she’s only getting 2, instead of the 4 portions for her body weight, but that is a lot of mushed nuggets and she hasn’t lost her appetite for everything else we give her.

Thank you for asking my boy is older and has a large bladder stone we’ve decided against surgery to remove (because of his general condition we don’t think he’d make it). So we’re just concentrating on keeping him comfortable and his weight as stable as we can. He is eating for himself as well so 30-40ml a day is enough for him which takes some of the pressure off. He loves syringe feed and is very used to syringes as he’s been on meds a long time, so he isn’t too difficult to feed

Hopefully Ophelia puts her weight back on now she has full access to her own food. It does sound like bullying unfortunately, though again I’m not an expert at all, just from what I’ve read on here. If she’s eating lots now that’s a good sign

 

[KHBz]

Thank you for asking my boy is older and has a large bladder stone we’ve decided against surgery to remove (because of his general condition we don’t think he’d make it). So we’re just concentrating on keeping him comfortable and his weight as stable as we can. He is eating for himself as well so 30-40ml a day is enough for him which takes some of the pressure off. He loves syringe feed and is very used to syringes as he’s been on meds a long time, so he isn’t too difficult to feed

Hopefully Ophelia puts her weight back on now she has full access to her own food. It does sound like bullying unfortunately, though again I’m not an expert at all, just from what I’ve read on here. If she’s eating lots now that’s a good sign

I'm very sorry to hear that he has a bladder stone. He sounds to be a lovely boy, enjoying the syringe feeds!

 

[KHBz]

I'm sorry to hear the two seem to be having bond troubles, unless illness on Ophelia's part is conceivably causing the problems? Tbh from your description, it doesn't sound that way.

I always regretted leaving sweet little Woolly together in a cage with the rather dominant Snowy beyond the time I thought Woolly was OK with the situation just because of what I'd read from people more expert than me on bonding... NOT what is on this forum. But still, you're on the ground observing all this. If you feel you don't really have £300 to spare, that's legitimate too.
Hoping for clarity for you all.

I'm sorry to hear of your regret -- it sounds a painful one. It's difficult to know what to do at the time, though. I still hesitate as to whether this is right thing to do, having looked back at the photos from bonding day, but at the same time wish we had done it sooner. In those photos, Ophelia is not scrawny. They were in the same space together for a month.

 

[KHBz]

I have contacted Burford Blue Cross about the need to rehome Betsie and find another companion for Ophelia and the relevant people will get back to me next week. (We don't have the space for them to live side by side long-term and it wouldn't be fair on either of them if we can avoid it.) I think we need to find Ophelia a husboar now. Unfortunately, the single males at Burford are very young, with the oldest being little over a year. Am I right in thinking that that is too young for her, as the boar will be too frisky to leave her alone? She needs a doting, mature gentleman!

 

[Piggies&buns]

I have contacted Burford Blue Cross about the need to rehome Betsie and find another companion for Ophelia and the relevant people will get back to me next week. (We don't have the space for them to live side by side long-term and it wouldn't be fair on either of them if we can avoid it.) I think we need to find Ophelia a husboar now. Unfortunately, the single males at Burford are very young, with the oldest being little over a year. Am I right in thinking that that is too young for her, as the boar will be too frisky to leave her alone? She needs a doting, mature gentleman!

It’s a shame it’s not worked out.

No, Not necessarily - a young boar/older sow pairing can work out perfectly if the character matches are right.

 

[Mrs Tiggy Winkle]

I'm sorry to hear of your regret -- it sounds a painful one. It's difficult to know what to do at the time, though. I still hesitate as to whether this is right thing to do, having looked back at the photos from bonding day, but at the same time wish we had done it sooner. In those photos, Ophelia is not scrawny. They were in the same space together for a month.

No, my regret isn't painful anymore. Snowy and Woolly long since and they both lived in successful and happy bonds after I split them and found new Partners. I just meant there's the theory and then there's what you really observe going on with your own piggies.

With a young husboar and

 

[Mrs Tiggy Winkle]

With a young husboar and

Sorry- I found that a very young husboar e.g. 4-5 months could be a bit rambunctious for an old lady generally and not just because of his (lost) hormones. I can't remember off-hand how old Ophelia is but if character-compatible maybe try for the 1yo? Otoh if Ophelia isn't acting like a total senior piggy, a young cagemate under 1yo can enliven her and be a good thing too.

 

[PiggyintheMiddle]

Sorry- I found that a very young husboar e.g. 4-5 months could be a bit rambunctious for an old lady generally and not just because of his (lost) hormones. I can't remember off-hand how old Ophelia is but if character-compatible maybe try for the 1yo? Otoh if Ophelia isn't acting like a total senior piggy, a young cagemate under 1yo can enliven her and be a good thing too.

Ophelia is 6

 

[KHBz]

Ophelia is 6

... but a very sprightly six, nimbly jumping over her water bowl and, rather unfortunately, over Bianca's body when we had left it with her for a few more hours.

 

[Mrs Tiggy Winkle]

... but a very sprightly six, nimbly jumping over her water bowl

Then I wouldn't worry about a rambunctious young husboar.

 

[PiggyintheMiddle]

Do you think it might work if we resorted to getting a pair of babies?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Do you think it might work if we resorted to getting a pair of babies?

(I assume you mean sow babies) In theory, yes, but until you try her with others then you just won’t know if you’ve got the compatibility right.

 

[KHBz]

Without a bonding service, this is so hit-and-miss!

 

[Piggies&buns]

Yes, unfortunately it is.

So, you can get a younger boar from the rescue?
Can you also get a pair of baby sows from the rescue? Or would baby sows be from elsewhere?

 

[KHBz]

There is a nine-month old boar who can live with a sow from the 20th September, whilst the 1-year-and-1-month old boar still has a few weeks to go before he can be paired with a sow. I'm afraid thoughts turned to baby sows from a pet shop ( sorry sorry we're just trying to find a solution asap!) however re-homing would not really be an option if they don't all get on. It seemed momentarily appealling to have babies... We're just feeling a bit desperate, as well as worn out from all the sow tension, drama and worry. I've been back in touch with other rescues as well so there is the feeling of here we go again ... back at the beginning ... weeks of uncertainty ahead ...

We're syringe feeding Ophelia now, in addition to the critical-care-nugget-mush, as she spurned my tasty brown mixture last night. She is being such a sweet, good girl with the syringe, even though it is distasteful

 

[Piggies&buns]

Nothing wrong with getting babies from a pet shop. The only reason I asked was because of it being the harder option if they don’t get on - you can’t return and would be left with side by side cages (which you said you can’t make work).

Personally, and assuming you would be able to return the boar to the rescue if it failed, then I would hold out and try the boar….and only because you can (hopefully) return if it failed.

If you are resigned to the fact that you woukd not rehome after failure and would be prepared to have side by side cages, then really it comes down to whether you would prefer the boar or baby sows.
There is no way any of us could say which one is going to stand the best chance unfortunately