• Discussions taking place within this forum are intended for the purpose of assisting you in discussing options with your vet. Any other use of advice given here is done so at your risk, is solely your responsibility and not that of this forum or its owner. Before posting it is your responsibility you abide by this Statement
  • You can find lots of information on how to settle in, understand your new guinea pigs in our New Owners Guide Collection but please ask any questions you have in Wannabe and New Owners' section.

Possible Heart Problem For Toast.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Beans&Toast

Forum Donator 2017/18
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
2,378
Reaction score
3,013
Points
1,225
Location
Falkirk,Scotland
I haven't really been on here in ages. I've been so busy travelling with work then my Mum's been really ill on top of the pigs being ill too :(


I have a horrible feeling Toast has a heart problem.


For well over 6 months now she's been making the hooting/crackling sounds accompanied with rapid breathing, even if she's just lying down relaxing.

She's been checked for URI various times and all 3 exotic specialist vets have said she sounds okay and the sound could just be from some kind of scar tissue? (I think that's what he meant)

She's had a heart xray and I was told her heart doesn't seem enlarged nor does there appear to be a build up of fluid.

The sounds she makes at home, she has never made them at the vets.
She's constantly hooting/rattling theb coughing every now and again especially when eating, she's also very fluffed up most of the time and she's recently started pawing at her mouth and chewing weird sometimes (but not all the time). She clearly has another dental issue but as she doesn't cope well under anesthetic normally, I'm quite reluctant to put her under again when I can't shake the feeling there's an under lying heart issue.


Maybe I'm wrong. In fact I hope I am, but I've really done at lot of research on heart issues with pigs and it just seems like everything points to it with Toast.


Where do I go from here?
My vet mentioned trying another kind of scan but I've already spent well over 6 grand on Toast now I just cannot afford to keep shelling out for things that aren't giving results.

I've read on Guinea Lynx that the treatment for a heart issue can be given on a 2 week trial to see if it helps, can I ask my vet for this?

Or could it be something else entirely? So stuck with this one :(
 

Tiamolly123

Forum Donator 2017/18
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
6,971
Reaction score
4,172
Points
1,375
Location
Binfield, berkshire
Is there a way you can tape the sound & then play it to the vet.

I was convinced my 13yr daughter had whooping cough & they kept saying no it's not that.
Taped her coughing & finally he agreed. So it would get you sorted hopefully
 

Beans&Toast

Forum Donator 2017/18
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
2,378
Reaction score
3,013
Points
1,225
Location
Falkirk,Scotland
I have tried to record it before but the sound from my phone is really loud, so you cant hear the hooting over the white noise sound from my phone.

I did find a video of a pig with hear problems who was hooting and it is the exact same sound that toast makes so I might let them hear that and see what they say..
 

furryfriends (TEAS)

Forum Founder
Senior Guinea Pig
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
11,268
Reaction score
6,760
Points
1,875
Location
Director at TEAS (East Hunsbury) Northampton
I'm thinking the grunty sounds and the coughing are due to her dental issue rather than a respiratory or heart issue. When teeth are becoming overgrown, it's harder to manipulate the food around the mouth and sometimes it temporarily obstructs the airway. I've seen this happen many times.
 

Jaycey

Forum Donator 2017/18
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
3,890
Reaction score
4,204
Points
1,235
Location
Leicester
Definitely record it for the vet as suggested. Sometimes it's impossible to get to the vet when something happens, and vets do appreciate it if you can provide them with something.

The vet could try an antibiotic if they suspect an infection. Most like to do that first to rule it out.

A diuretic would be handy. Crackling suggests that their is something in her airway, whether it's her lungs or nasal area so a diuretic would help there.

If the vet is reluctant to try that, as many are when there's no sign of fluid on the lungs then it would be worth asking about nebulising.

One of my boys had a URI a few times after I got him. The Baytril chased it away but he had noisy breathing on and off for the rest of his life. I have a great vet who looked at him regularly and was 100% he didn't have a URI. So, we used a nebuliser to help him on his tougher days. It was fab, really helped him lots.

He was already on a diuretic for his bladder sludge issues so we ruled out heart problems too.
 

Beans&Toast

Forum Donator 2017/18
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
2,378
Reaction score
3,013
Points
1,225
Location
Falkirk,Scotland
I'm thinking the grunty sounds and the coughing are due to her dental issue rather than a respiratory or heart issue. When teeth are becoming overgrown, it's harder to manipulate the food around the mouth and sometimes it temporarily obstructs the airway. I've seen this happen many times.
Really? But what about the fast breathing? The hooting has been going on since before her dental issue (she's had many dentals in the past though). She's been chewing fine until about 1 weeks ago and it's on and off now.

He had a look at her teeth as best he could without GA and said her incisors were around 1mm overgrown but given how badly she reacts to GA he wouldn't want too jump in and file them unless absolutely needed.... she manages to chew but some of the thicker bits of hay she's struggling with now.

I'm just worried about the anesthetic, she takes over a week to recover and ended up with gut stasis last time due to it
 

Beans&Toast

Forum Donator 2017/18
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
2,378
Reaction score
3,013
Points
1,225
Location
Falkirk,Scotland
Definitely record it for the vet as suggested. Sometimes it's impossible to get to the vet when something happens, and vets do appreciate it if you can provide them with something.

The vet could try an antibiotic if they suspect an infection. Most like to do that first to rule it out.

A diuretic would be handy. Crackling suggests that their is something in her airway, whether it's her lungs or nasal area so a diuretic would help there.

If the vet is reluctant to try that, as many are when there's no sign of fluid on the lungs then it would be worth asking about nebulising.

One of my boys had a URI a few times after I got him. The Baytril chased it away but he had noisy breathing on and off for the rest of his life. I have a great vet who looked at him regularly and was 100% he didn't have a URI. So, we used a nebuliser to help him on his tougher days. It was fab, really helped him lots.

He was already on a diuretic for his bladder sludge issues so we ruled out heart problems too.
Thank you. Only issue is we're really restricted with medication. She can't have Baytril, Septrin or Sulfatrim, she went lifeless before when she's been given these.

I use steam and olbas oil already and it doesn't make a difference to her breathing :(

She's not got a runny nose and he's happy it's not a URI. Its completely stumped me on this one.
 

Jaycey

Forum Donator 2017/18
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
3,890
Reaction score
4,204
Points
1,235
Location
Leicester
My boy didn't have a runny nose either.

As he's had URI's earlier in life his air passages were a bit compromised. And as their pipes are so tiny anyway, the slightest irritation (dust, a draught, a bit of hay) would cause him to breathe heavily.

Steam didn't help him either but a few rounds in his nebuliser really helped. They need something to dislodge the obstruction.

Debbie makes a really good point about teeth though. They can't breath through their noises like we can when we eat, so any problems in their mouth with affect their breathing.
 

Jaycey

Forum Donator 2017/18
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
3,890
Reaction score
4,204
Points
1,235
Location
Leicester
Struggling to chew suggests back teeth issues. You need to find a vet who can sort out her teeth consciously, or travel to Northampton.
 

furryfriends (TEAS)

Forum Founder
Senior Guinea Pig
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
11,268
Reaction score
6,760
Points
1,875
Location
Director at TEAS (East Hunsbury) Northampton
Really? But what about the fast breathing? The hooting has been going on since before her dental issue (she's had many dentals in the past though). She's been chewing fine until about 1 weeks ago and it's on and off now.

He had a look at her teeth as best he could without GA and said her incisors were around 1mm overgrown but given how badly she reacts to GA he wouldn't want too jump in and file them unless absolutely needed.... she manages to chew but some of the thicker bits of hay she's struggling with now.

I'm just worried about the anesthetic, she takes over a week to recover and ended up with gut stasis last time due to it
Dental pigs are also more likely to aspirate food too. I really think first port of call needs to be a good examination of the teeth. A brewing abscess can cause some obstruction of the nasal passage too, so that could make the breathing grunty and more obvious. I may be totally wrong but this is all screaming 'dental' at me.
 

Beans&Toast

Forum Donator 2017/18
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
2,378
Reaction score
3,013
Points
1,225
Location
Falkirk,Scotland
Struggling to chew suggests back teeth issues. You need to find a vet who can sort out her teeth consciously, or travel to Northampton.
I've phoned several vets about concious dentals and none of them are willing to do it with Toast unfortunately. She has an abnormally small mouth and is the most nervous/anxious guinea pig I've ever known. She's on a high does of Amitriptyline to help with anxiety as she gets constant cystitis from getting to easily stressed.

My vet attempted a concious dental once before but stopped as he was worried she was going to have a heart attack.


If it's looking more like a dental issue causing the hooting as opposed to a heart issue then I'd go ahead with the anesthesic. He said he'd do it a different way this time, jusy a very quick wiff of gas...?
 

Beans&Toast

Forum Donator 2017/18
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
2,378
Reaction score
3,013
Points
1,225
Location
Falkirk,Scotland
Dental pigs are also more likely to aspirate food too. I really think first port of call needs to be a good examination of the teeth. A brewing abscess can cause some obstruction of the nasal passage too, so that could make the breathing grunty and more obvious. I may be totally wrong but this is all screaming 'dental' at me.
Thanks I really appreciate it. I hope it is dental, my fear was heart so I'd rather a dental issues if anything
 

Beans&Toast

Forum Donator 2017/18
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
2,378
Reaction score
3,013
Points
1,225
Location
Falkirk,Scotland
Can I they not give her a sedative to keep her calm
That's what I've been wondering too actually.

Although she's had bupronorphine (don't think that's how you spell that) before and it completely knocked her for a week, wouldn't move or eat after it.

That's why I'm getting so panicked, she responds so badly to so many medications I don't know what is the best thing to do
 

Tiamolly123

Forum Donator 2017/18
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
6,971
Reaction score
4,172
Points
1,375
Location
Binfield, berkshire
if you can write everything that toast is allergic to, & tell her she can't have that, I'm sure they must have something toast could give. You don't want a sedative that knocks her out, just something that makes her happy
 

Beans&Toast

Forum Donator 2017/18
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
2,378
Reaction score
3,013
Points
1,225
Location
Falkirk,Scotland
So my vet has just phoned, he's going to get her in tomorrow morning and she's first on the list so she won't be waiting too long.

This will be her 5th dental she's had in the space of just over a year, they are getting further and further apart so I'm really hoping this will be the last time. I'm terrified for her, she's reacted so badly to every anesthetic, worse every time actually but no vets will treat her conscious and I live in Scotland so going to Northampton isn't even a remote possibility.

He said he won't use the injectables (if that's right?) this time as he thinks that's what's caused the issues before, instead just a whiff of gas, as little as possible to get the job done.
 

Poppy'sMum

Senior Guinea Pig
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
5,471
Reaction score
2,135
Points
1,120
Location
Dear old Blighty UK
Good luck for tomorrow :) Try to avoid Buprenorphine if at all possible, it can make their recovery slow & they seem very out of it for a while after. Has he tried Tramodol with her as alternative pain relief? Obviously you need to check it won't clash with her other meds x
 

helen105281

Forum Donator 2017/18
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
18,860
Reaction score
10,489
Points
2,155
Location
Herts
I am usually the first to think heart but if the x-ray is clear I am going with Debbie and saying it sounds more like her dental issues.
 

Beans&Toast

Forum Donator 2017/18
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
2,378
Reaction score
3,013
Points
1,225
Location
Falkirk,Scotland
Good luck for tomorrow :) Try to avoid Buprenorphine if at all possible, it can make their recovery slow & they seem very out of it for a while after. Has he tried Tramodol with her as alternative pain relief? Obviously you need to check it won't clash with her other meds x
Thank you :) Buprenorphine doesn't agree with her at all, she stopped eating after being given that, same with other opiates. Loxicom and Amitriptyline seem to be the only medications for pain that agree with her.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top