Sows fighting

[JenK202q]

I originally had 4 rescue females and 2 turned out to be pregnant having 3 babies each, 3 boys and 3 girls. So I now have a trio of boys and a herd of 7 girls. The herd of 7 girls live in a 2 by 11 c & c cage on aubiose covered in copious amounts of hay, and have lots of hides and enrichment so it can't be a matter of space or boredom. 2 of the baby girls have started having really aggressive fights. Sometimes within the hides, which is quite scary as suddenly I hear a huge thudding nose. They kind of go at each other head on, get on their back legs and continously head butt each other. No blood has been drawn, no bites but it's like nothing I've seen before and I've bonded new adult females together a few times. It doesn't happen often, most of the time they are fine but it's not like it's something that is passing with time either. The frequency has been consistent since they were about 6 weeks old. Bizarrely, my three boys show way less aggression, they just rumble at each other occasionally then get on with life.
What is too much when it comes to females fighting? Should I separate one of them now or just keep an eye? They both get along really well with the others who all have no issues, it would be difficult to choose who to separate them with to be rehomed if it did come to that. Thanks everyone.

 

[Siikibam]

Sows usually pull out hair rather than do full on bites. But the going for each other does sound a little aggressive. Does one squeal or do they square up to each other? If it’s the case that they don’t get on then perhaps you could split them into two herds. How long have they been living together and how long has this behaviour been going on?

Have a read of the guides linked below. One thing I would warn you about is the three boars. It’s very rare for them to make it through their teens (4-14 months of age) still together. So I would perhaps consider keeping two together who get on best and maybe neutering the third to live back with the sows. You will have to consider this as the failure rate is pretty high. You don’t want to be in a situation where a fight breaks out and you (possibly) end up with three single boars. Another thing is that they shouldn’t be within scent reach of sows. Although they’ve been living with sows from Birth, it’s not a guarantee that their scent couldn’t cause issues between them.

Bonds In Trouble
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars

 

[JenK202q]

Thanks. They don't squeal. They just defend themselves, nose punch for a few seconds repeatedly. They have been together since birth 3 months ago hence the back story I explained. I have seen normal female dominance, chasing hair pulling , teeth chattering from bonding new females. This is nothing like that.

Regarding the males who I didn't ask for advice on since I have no issues with them. Also been together since birth 3 months ago.
Yes, I know a lot about males and the chances of success. I've had trios and fours and fives of males before with success and know many others who have too. Space and hay are key. They adore each other and always sleep together despite living in a 2 by 9 and having many hide options. They also travel together much better than my females. I keep an eye on their behaviour. They don't favour one over the other, all get along equally. They are extremely gentle and chilled out boars, maybe I'm just lucky along with all the many other people I know who keep multiple boars who get along. One likes a good rumble but that's the most aggression I've seen. I wouldn't feel comfortable putting one through a surgery when everything is going so well for them all. I've had a lot of experience with boars and feel I will know if and when I need to separate. You will also be concerned to know they live 2 a and c grids height above my sows and yet I still have know issues with them and so didn't ask about that either as I know so many people who have the same set up with no issues.
Would love to hear about your own experience of failure of keeping a trio of boars and how that lead to ending up with 3 solo boars etc?

 

[Pigwhisperer]

@JenK202q nobody is here to have a go at you. Search "boar trios" for an answer to your question, it's a subject that comes up a LOT on the forum and everyone here is kind and wants the best for you and your piggies.

Hope you find a solution for your battling sows.

 

[Siikibam]

I’m trying to figure out if you meant your reply to be that dismissive. What I don’t do is make assumptions about people’s experience when it comes to guinea pigs.

I hope your girls figure it out.

 

[Piggies&buns]

It sounds aggressive and that there are problems between these two and their character compatibility. I would think it likely that these two sows are going to need to be separated and live in separate cages. If one isn’t squealing then they potentially aren’t submitting - this could be a problem. You ideally one of them to be squealing, submitting and backing in a lower position in the hierarchy than the other.
Are the hideys all two exit? If there are some hideys which are causing more problems than others, then the normal advice we give is to remove the problematic hidey.

Regarding the boar trio - We get a very high number of posts from people attempting boar trios, the overwhelming majority have come to us because problems start when they get to around six months of age, having had no idea that trios are so problematic and desperate for advice when the previously happy trio start fighting. You may not have asked about the trio, but it is standard for us to advise everyone about the risks of boar trios, particularly new members such as yourself. Yes space is important but it is secondary to character compatibility and this is not something you can control. If they are getting on great then that is absolutely fine, but do just know that we give the advice to everybody because there have been countless times when somebody has mentioned their boar trio as a side note to the actual issue they came here about but had absolutely no idea about the problems that have a high probability of coming their way as their boars hit their teens.

 

[VickiA]

Thanks. They don't squeal. They just defend themselves, nose punch for a few seconds repeatedly. They have been together since birth 3 months ago hence the back story I explained. I have seen normal female dominance, chasing hair pulling , teeth chattering from bonding new females. This is nothing like that.

Regarding the males who I didn't ask for advice on since I have no issues with them. Also been together since birth 3 months ago.
Yes, I know a lot about males and the chances of success. I've had trios and fours and fives of males before with success and know many others who have too. Space and hay are key. They adore each other and always sleep together despite living in a 2 by 9 and having many hide options. They also travel together much better than my females. I keep an eye on their behaviour. They don't favour one over the other, all get along equally. They are extremely gentle and chilled out boars, maybe I'm just lucky along with all the many other people I know who keep multiple boars who get along. One likes a good rumble but that's the most aggression I've seen. I wouldn't feel comfortable putting one through a surgery when everything is going so well for them all. I've had a lot of experience with boars and feel I will know if and when I need to separate. You will also be concerned to know they live 2 a and c grids height above my sows and yet I still have know issues with them and so didn't ask about that either as I know so many people who have the same set up with no issues.
Would love to hear about your own experience of failure of keeping a trio of boars and how that lead to ending up with 3 solo boars etc?

@JenK202q I’ll be honest. Your response comes across as rude and unappreciative. You joined this forum. We know nothing about you and you asked our members for their advice. That’s what you got.

Often the advice we give is not welcomed with open arms as it isn’t what people wanted to hear. And in the interests of guinea pig welfare we don’t simply answer the question asked but try to help, and educate in the interests of all the guinea pigs. But believe me, on behalf of all the forum team, the advice on keeping a trio of boars is well borne out by experience. I help run a guinea pig rescue. And we’ve lost track of the number of boars surrendered to us as a result of being boar trios who’ve fallen out. And any search of this forum would instantly reveal the problems with keeping a juvenile boar trio.

You are of course free to peruse our resources, take on board any advice you wish to accept. But please do not be disrespectful to any of the hard working team on here who are all volunteers and who do this only out of love for the welfare of guinea pigs.