Weight Loss (Could it be the Antibiotics?)

[The Mad House]

Hi Guys,

I thought long and hard about posting this (the last time I posted was a while ago) and I guess I'm looking to see if anyone else has experience with this and if anyone has any advice. I need to explain a few things before I get to the questions though.

I also want to preface this by saying please don't just reply with; take him to the vets. - We are going to take him to the vets, to the exotic vets, if he doesn't improve over the next day or so. Please also read all the information before replying.

So Patch hasn't been himself since last Monday/Tuesday I would say. He hasn't been out running around like normal and he's been quite lethargic. Wednesday when I got home from uni my other half said he hadn't been himself so I got him out and he was very floppy (my other half is a bit less vigilant than me when it comes to the piggies and a bit less well read - but then I do have anxiety and OCD so....), I got some fluids into him and some isotonic solution (the one for rabbits) and he seemed to perk up a bit, we got some bits of lettuce in him too but he'd lost about 70grams (I think, I'm writing this in work and I don't have my diary with the weights in). Because I was worried I also gave him a 0.25ml dose of Doxycycline - which Pickett was prescribed when he had an ear infection (they're about the same weight) - and I knew it was an antibiotic.

We got him to the vets first thing on Wednesday morning and the Vet checked him over. He said there were no mites, no sign of infection, his chest all sounded fine too and he looked okay around his bum. By this point Patch had perked up, he'd eaten some cucumber and he was squeaking when he was stroked and stuff. The vet said that the previous evenings events could have been because his blood sugar had dropped and that getting the isotonic stuff into him was the best thing to do. (I also gave it him in the morning - about 1-2ml via syringe).

Thursday though he didn't seem like himself again. I took him out, checked him over and even got some dry shampoo from pets at home and gave him a wash just to be on the safe side (that shampoo has made his coat bloody gorgeous by the way). I noticed that when checking his bum and bits that when pressed pee seemed to be coming from where his willy tucks back up. When I managed to fully extract it, it did seem a bit tender. I thought he might be just dehydrated at this point but by Thursday evening he still hadn't perked up MUCH.

We separated him and his cage mate for the night just to be on the safe side but this definitely wasn't the problem and Friday morning after we let them back in together they were cuddled up together again. In fact Cabbage has kind of been looking after him which is adorable.

Despite what the vet said. I used my judgement and gave him another dose of doxy - just to be on the safe side.

After spending most of Thursday night googling I wondered if he had a water infection or the start of one - he seemed to be eating but not drinking much. Friday morning I checked and his willy looked quite sore, there was some bits of discharge too. I cleaned it up best I could with him fighting me. Gave him some water and after another lot of googling found out that doxycycline is used to treat water infections.

From Friday morning I also started giving him some Metacam twice a day (about 0.25/0.3 ml - again this was prescribed for Pickett with his ear infection but he was on 0.65ml).

Over the weekend I've been making sure to get some water into him (if only a few ml at a time and we've been getting him out and making sure he has a handful of veggies) he still doesn't seem to have his appetite back fully though. I'd also been checking his willy and washing it as well as continuing with the doxy and metacam.

Monday and this morning he seemed to have lost another 20 or so grams (about 10 each day) after leveling out and having no more weight loss and certainly no more dramatic weightloss. His willy has cleared right up, not painful looking and there's no pee coming out like there was on Thursday (when you press to make it pop out), which means there's nothing trapped.

My other half has told me he put him downstairs for veggies this morning and he has eaten some. His eyes were bright this morning when I checked him, he had fight in him and his coat is nice and shiny not rough or puffed out (he is a fluffy piggie too though).

I'm still a bit worried about his weight but he's 950 and my other half thinks that the stress of me getting him out, checking him, giving him antibiotics/water is probably affecting his appetite and him running around and stuff - especially given that he likes a cuddle but only on his term and hates being fussed over/having his nails done/hair trimmed.

What I guess I'm looking for advice on is; could the metacam or the Doxycycline be affecting his appetite?
Could it be the stress?
Has anyone else had experience with this?

Like I said if he hasn't put weight pack on or is still losing that 10 grams a day or is still not himself come Thursday we're going to take him to the exotic vets, we're leaving it til then to see if his appetite comes back if I stop fussing and we lower/stop the metacam dose.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi!

The metacam doesn't affect the appetite but any antibiotic can. If you have other healthy piggies, then 'poo soup'. i.e. live healthy gut microbiome transfer is the most effective way. Splitting up the dosage and giving it every 12 hours (unless you are doing this already or your vet is insisting on a once daily dosage) can also help to bolster the impact on the gut.

However, I would strongly suspect that something else but your fussing is going on - but that it may not be something that can be easily cured.
Very ill piggies, even if they have never been cuddly are generally much more receptive of help and support during that time in my own experience.

Please DO NOT lower the metacam for a piggy that is showing off/on signs of pain like fur standing on end, which is generally pointing towards some pain inside the body.

If you want to find out whether a piggy is still eating by themselves, then see whether he will take the syringe feed from a spoon rather from the syringe.

 

[The Mad House]

Hey!

I'm suspecting it might be the antibiotic! So thank you for that, I'm sure Pickett lost weight when he was on it. Also thank you so much for the poo soup recommendation I hadn't even thought of that. We have three other very healthy piggies, so they can all pitch in with their poop!

The splitting the dosage, would that be for the antibiotic or the metacam?

I was giving him the metacam in the morning and evening (about 6am and 6pm or there abouts), just 0.25/0.3ml at a time, and only because I think he was in pain with his willy (I'm still doing to give him a dose when I get home just to be on the safe side).

The Doxycycline I am only giving him once a day at 6pm or there abouts the full 0.25ml that the vet prescribed for Pickett when he had his ear infection.

In terms of helping him he's started fighting me a bit again which we're taking as a good sign because like you said other piggies we've had, have generally accepted help when they've been poorly. Even Patch himself accepted help the other day, even when I was cleaning his bits and bobs.

Thank you so much for your help! ❤

 

[The Mad House]

So my other half has just sent me this picture of his poops


He's a bit worried but I think they look pretty normal if all he's eaten is some veggies and not much else or am I trying to be too 'everything is going to be okay' because I'm freaking out about everything else.

 

[Wiebke]

Hey!

I'm suspecting it might be the antibiotic! So thank you for that, I'm sure Pickett lost weight when he was on it. Also thank you so much for the poo soup recommendation I hadn't even thought of that. We have three other very healthy piggies, so they can all pitch in with their poop!

The splitting the dosage, would that be for the antibiotic or the metacam?

I was giving him the metacam in the morning and evening (about 6am and 6pm or there abouts), just 0.25/0.3ml at a time, and only because I think he was in pain with his willy (I'm still doing to give him a dose when I get home just to be on the safe side).

The Doxycycline I am only giving him once a day at 6pm or there abouts the full 0.25ml that the vet prescribed for Pickett when he had his ear infection.

In terms of helping him he's started fighting me a bit again which we're taking as a good sign because like you said other piggies we've had, have generally accepted help when they've been poorly. Even Patch himself accepted help the other day, even when I was cleaning his bits and bobs.

Thank you so much for your help! ❤

Please follow our recipe for poo soup in this guide here; it only works when it is totally freshly made as the stuff will die very quickly and become useless. Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links

You may find our new guide collection useful; you can access it via the shortcut on the top bar. It makes quite an impressive resource and is worth bookmarking!

 

[Wiebke]

So my other half has just sent me this picture of his poops

View attachment 135823
He's a bit worried but I think they look pretty normal if all he's eaten is some veggies and not much else or am I trying to be too 'everything is going to be okay' because I'm freaking out about everything else.

That is not looking too bad; a bit light on fibre (hay) but things are still working OK so I would not panic if I were you!

 

[The Mad House]

Thank you so much for your help!

I've used the guides before for other things and you're right they're so useful! First port of call whenever I'm unsure of anything or worried I'm over worrying is the guinea pig forums! I'll get on the poo soup recipe!

Thanks again @Wiebke

 

[The Mad House]

We're going to get him into the exotic vet today (or try to) he lost another 20grams yesterday and another 5 this morning.

That means since last Tuesday when we weighed him he's lost 100 and before that we had missed weighing him but he'd lost about 125g between the two weeks of us weighing him.

He hadn't cleaned himself from where I'd syringe fed him a little bit last night and he's just been sat in his pee. He wouldn't let me get any food in him either and I've had to go to work so as soon as the vet opens I'm calling them and getting him in.

Last night we didn't give him any antibiotics as he'd had it for six days and we didn't give him pain killers either in case either were affecting him (my other half was insistent about this).

We gave him about 3ml syringes of a probiotic and water mix that we got from pets at home and then I also syringe fed him about 15ml over two hours of pellet mush.
He perked up a little after that but not much.

I'm so worried about him now

The exotic vet opens at 8 and I'm just hoping they can see him and sort him Now I'm panicking too that maybe I've done the wrong thing at some point.

Sorry I'm rambling I know. I'm just sort of talking into the ether right now.

 

[Wiebke]

We're going to get him into the exotic vet today (or try to) he lost another 20grams yesterday and another 5 this morning.

That means since last Tuesday when we weighed him he's lost 100 and before that we had missed weighing him but he'd lost about 125g between the two weeks of us weighing him.

He hadn't cleaned himself from where I'd syringe fed him a little bit last night and he's just been sat in his pee. He wouldn't let me get any food in him either and I've had to go to work so as soon as the vet opens I'm calling them and getting him in.

Last night we didn't give him any antibiotics as he'd had it for six days and we didn't give him pain killers either in case either were affecting him (my other half was insistent about this).

We gave him about 3ml syringes of a probiotic and water mix that we got from pets at home and then I also syringe fed him about 15ml over two hours of pellet mush.
He perked up a little after that but not much.

I'm so worried about him now

The exotic vet opens at 8 and I'm just hoping they can see him and sort him Now I'm panicking too that maybe I've done the wrong thing at some point.

Sorry I'm rambling I know. I'm just sort of talking into the ether right now.

Please put him back on painkillers ASAP! Ask your partner to please read this post: NEVER take a piggy off that is exhibiting signs of pain; apart from the unnecessary suffering, it is also a major appetite killer. Guinea pigs have a very fast metabolism and in many cases are under- and not overdosed with them. they should also get painkiller every 12 hours.
Early Signs Of Illness

Do NOT take any guinea pig off any antibiotic course until it has finished. If necessary, clarify with the vet before you do so. See your vet again if there is no improvement by the end of the course or if your piggy is getting worse while on the antibiotic.

All the best!

 

[The Mad House]

So we got him in the exotic vet this morning and like you said I was doing the right thing.

They think it's a bladder problem and they're going to keep him in over night to get fluids and food into him and then see if he perks up and work out whether he needs a scan. To check for stones and stuff.

They're going to give him painkillers and the Doxycycline again and the vet said that I was doing the right thing. So i think I need to trust myself a bit more.

Thank you again for all your help.

I'll post a picture when he's back and back to health and being his cheeky self!

I feel so much calmer now he's there and that vet surgery is amazing. They're so calm and lovely. I'd highly recommend them to anyone that needs them.

 

[The Mad House]

So just an update on Patch, in case anyone is reading or having a similar issue (in the future).

I'm a bit scared for him to be honest and really worried about him.

He's been at the vets since Wednesday morning when we took him and they've just got him stable enough to give him a tiny bit of gas anaesthetic and then be able to do an x-ray. On the X-Ray they said they couldn't really see his heart very well and he seems to have fluid on his lungs. They want to keep him in over the weekend and get him on some diuretics and if he improves do another X-ray on Monday. They said it could be a heart problem or a problem with his lungs which is worrying too.

They've asked if we want to go and see him tonight though so we're going to go up and see him but I'm honestly really worried they're doing this because they think it's the last time we'll see him.

I'm terrified for him. I hate the thought of him being on his own and Cabbage is missing him too now. (He has two other piggies to chat to through the bars but Patch is his cage mate.) I'm going to take the little stuffed piggie we have in the cage with them up to him (it was an attempt to make sure Cabbage didn't hump him too much) as silly as that sounds.

He's my little chatty baby and I just want him home squeaking at me about his day again.

 

[The Mad House]

Unfortunately Patch didn't make it.

Friday night we went up to see him and they had him in an incubator type thing. He was incredibly lethargic and his breathing wasn't good. He tried to turn around to see us and reacted to our voice but we didn't want to stress him so we stroked him but his teddy and blanket in with him and then closed the incubator back up. He had pneumonia, fluid on his chest and they suspected a heart problem.

They were doing everything they could for him but in the early hours of Saturday morning they called us and told us he'd passed away.

We brought him home Saturday morning after checking with the Vet that we didn't need to take Cabbage to be checked over. I let Cabbage see him but he sort of sniffed and then just ran off. I think that's because he wasn't sure what was going on and I think he'd sort of accepted Patch wasn't coming back because he'd been gone since Wednesday morning.

Usually this is the sort of thing I'd go round and round about and beat myself over the head with because of my OCD but I honestly did everything I could and so did the vets at Ashleigh's. The only thing I did wrong was that I should of taken him straight to the exotic vet that Thursday morning instead of the normal Vet. We won't be making that mistake again.

I now need some advice about my remaining three Piggies but I'll put that in a new thread in the appropriate section.

 

[piggieminder]

I am so sorry to hear your sad news. I made the same mistake as you last year and went to the wrong vet to start with. I lost Spike to pneumonia too. Neither of us were to know, we acted in the right way by getting vet treatment straight away. Be very kind to yourself as you grieve for Patch.